OP: Am I ready for kids checklist?

We do not have children so the living together checklist is as close as I dare go with the question. It does have some information to be considered, however, such as establishing a life together, first, as a couple; taking vacations and seeing places, SAVING MONEY, having enough money to support a third person, etc., et cetera, etc. So, you may want to read that section, again.

BIG on my list of specifics is being emotionally ready to take on the task of caring 24/7 for someone else. I've done this for a senior adult and it can be very trying. Having a child(ren) can be such a blessing, yet I would think a couple has to be mentally prepared for the challenges that will follow. Essentially, your life will not be your own for the next twenty years, unless you are one of these self absorbed jerks (male or female) who believes that once you have a child they can be raised by a nanny, daycare people, or left to their own devices when older.

If you are going to have a child, please plan on parenting that child yourself (with assistance) but do not give his or her care over to daycare or a nanny. Why go to work only to use your salary to pay for what you could do for and by yourself BETTER by being a stay-at-home mom or dad?

What galls me the most is not that couples jump in financially unprepared, or, thinking they "have a clue" when they do not, or that "it will all work out as we go along", is that they plan from the start to begin a family and then turn over the care and feeding to strangers. The deal breaker for me is that if one of you cannot be at home doing the raisin' then do not bring a child into the world.

dancingdoc2

Posted: 30 Sep 19:35

Thanx for your reply doc :)

I like your comments on raising. I do have the intention of raising a child myself (staying home), but I'm usually looked at by others as if I'm totally out-of-my-mind, whenever I say this (no matter if they are or are not parents themselves). I am highly educated, so people think I should be worrying about my 'career'. They act like raising a kid is the 'minor' thing. While I think it's a major job that requires a lot of attention. If people can write staples of books reaching to the skies as if it were skyscrapers, how can we think parenting is such a piece of cake? I would like to do that in an (as much as possible) peaceful environment. And if I can, I also would very much like to breastfeed for his/her health, but also for the bonding. So I don't think I'd want to suck the breast-milk out with some kind of device and put it in a bottle (not daily anyways). I wouldn't know if you'd need to keep on the full time-parenting when a child is older. After all, they do go to school, perhaps pre-school. And by that time, I see no problem in using that time for other purposes :)

But that's far, far away... Maybe it seems crazy that I thought about these kind of things... I reckon I can not plan or oversee everything. There's so much going on when having a baby! But just because it's so much, I think it's worth thinking about :) Also: I came up with this question, because about a half year ago I was confronted with an unexpected pregnancy and (unfortunately) nature solved this by itself... So I am very much busy with the question of having children now... My bf does not want it, only 'when it just happens' (like it did). I feel strengthened by your remark of how it does not work to say "it will all work out as we go along". That's what my bf says and I really don't think it will... He thinks that when this 'accident' does happen again, I'll just all the sudden go and live with him and have a baby. That's way too much and seems very stressful. I was and am not comfortable with the idea at all... With the living-together-checklist in one hand: there are too many things not discussed or not provided for... (I do know that emergencies sometimes require a different approach, but: no)

So, it seems like I'm in this kind of a there's-a-catch-situation. He does not want to plan anything, because the favorable choice to him is: kids=no and preferable continues this living-apart-together-relationships. For me: the favorable choice would be: kids=yes, if I can plan things ahead... Though I don't think I'll be able to raise one completely by my own (iow: without a relationship).

Come to think of it, my question was: when are you ready to have kids in your relationship? I also feel like my dilemma is becoming: What if I'm ready to start planning for kids, but my relationship is not? :confused:

I'm sorry of this post is not as clear and maybe even confusing... It's kind of how I feel. It feels so weird: how can I even think about comparing the desire of having a little human-being that has not even come into existence, with the love for a man of flesh and blood that loves me and means so much to me?

RedRoses

Posted: 30 Sep 19:35

All very valid and enlightening information! As a parent of three myself, I had a similar discussion with my daughter a few years ago. She was in the same mindset, I thought she was too young (and as a father, you're ALWAYS too young!) I bought a dog. Gave him to her as a gift and a lesson. The lesson in rearing an animal is patience. If she could not raise a dog, feeding, walking, training and most importantly, give him the attention he needs and deserves, how could she possibly raise a child? I'm happy to say, today I have one great dog!!

Ilovetolick

Posted: 30 Sep 19:36

Just a question; how old was your daughter at the time? And did she have kids after 'raising' the dog? :)

Also, since you're a mom yourself, I'm just wondering if you could give some information on how you made this decision. What did you consider before becoming pregnant? What was on your mind? And/or perhaps: was there something different when having the second/third? Things you decided that should be different?

Your answer will be very much appreciated :)

RedRoses

Posted: 30 Sep 19:36

I wish I could give a definitive answer, but no one can. I have never had children and am now biological over the bar. As a very young adult, I was not interested in having children. In my very late twenties, I met Mr Right and we decided that we would have no children. We wished to become part of Doctors without Borders and serve children, and adults, in less wealthy places. He died shortly before we were to be married and, after more than a year's serious funk, I decided that I was not going through that again! "That" being swept off my feet and going through the decision making process regarding marriage, children and what to do with our combined life. I had my tubes tied and shortly returned to a previous lesbian relationship (make sense of that!).

I remain actively bisexual and spend a portion of each year with Doctors Without Borders and treat my medical practice almost as a miinistry (beats anything that passes for religion!). There has never been space for children in my life and I made two definite decisions - one with my fiance and one alone. I do not know which was more difficult.

At this point (early 50s) I have no regrets. Will I? I do not know. Am I a selfish bitch? I do not know. Interestingly, neither my sister nor I, each with careers and rather full lives, has ever been married or had children. Our younger brother is happily married with two kids in Toronto.

Women have asked me "why" and sought input for decisions on marriage, children and both. I can only give what is my experience. Regrettably, we cannot live one life with bairn and one without to compare the results.

Brandye

Posted: 30 Sep 19:37

Unfortunately, I cannot answer this fully as I am the father. In reality, when my wife and I talked of conception, it was not whether we we ready or had the room. It was finances! Even with insurance, raising a child is a huge expense we literally had saved for. This discussion was made before each child. As for my daughter, she chose not to bear at the time and I got the dog. Win-Win for me! I'm sure she will have what it takes to be a great mother. Right now she is taking my advice and enjoying childless life a little bit longer before she and her husband take that step.

Ilovetolick

Posted: 30 Sep 19:37

Both of you, thank you for your replies. (And I hope you forgive me for the mistake ILTL; shame on me! :o ) I know there's not a definite answer, but I'd like to learn from what other's have experienced.

What a sad story, Brandy, of loosing someone so close... And why would you even ask the question if you'd be selfish! You spend a portion of each year with Doctors Without Borders, which I think is absolutely wonderful! :) And even if you didn't; having or not having kids does not make us selfish or not...

In a way I feel selfish towards my bf, though. It's just because I want it... In a way having a child is mostly about me; it's an experience I would add to my life... It's a hunger, a passion that I feel growing inside me and is irrational in every way. The only thing rational would be preparing and deciding. The child has no knowledge about this, no say in coming into this world. A world in which (s)he will definitely experience pain (to some degree), but hopefully also happiness. Life is a precious gift... But I do not need to do it for anyone. Don't need to do it for the sake of mankind... Only contribution made would be having a baby while highly educated, which would make the government happy... no, not good enough; hi hi! ;)

Anyways, I thank you for sharing and will probably post here once more to share my thinking. And I hope more will ask me interesting questions as well :)

RedRoses

Posted: 30 Sep 19:37

> If you're ready to have a child and support them, then you're ready. Don't do anything unless you're ready for the consequences...

Wow, I always thought I was some conservative bitch for actually pointing this out! I'm glad there are others who do too :) That said; it also explains why I sometimes feel so furious about the situation I'm in right now... :mad: On the other had; I've been having an urge for babies, before I even had any interest in sex (other then it being a necessity). So; who's weird? ;-) Thing is: my opinion and feelings on sex have changed (very good necessity it is! :rolleyes:), my opinion and feelings towards having kids have not...

Anyways, I've had a serious talk with my bf. There's is a very high possibility that he will never want a baby (not with me, not with anyone)... He feels not healthy enough for a baby. Which I understand: I do not have quite a healthy body myself. For me; that leads to exactly the opposite conclusion. I'm young and have the most energy I'll have in a lifetime, even if it's less then others my age. I fear that when I'm older, I won't be able to have a healthy pregnancy. And that's what it will have to start with! No-one can be of assistence in that; it's something I'll have to do...

In fact: he likes keeping our lives separate; keeping his own house, his own finances, making his own choices for what-so-ever... Which perhaps sounds like oh-jolly-freedom, but ironically by him choosing this, he takes away some of mine... I've even mentioned us keeping separate lives, but if he would have a baby. Then he wouldn't have to be around it 24/7. But for this he would feel to responsible, would hate himself if he wasn't a true father to the child... Which I also understand. I know: it must be a very-very stupid idea... But even thinking about it shows how troubled I feel by all this. Damn, you people must think I'm 100% crazy by now... :(

Am I a selfish bitch if I'd choose to end this relationship because of this? Is it wrong to put a wish for a baby (a person that does not exist and I'm not even sure that I will conceive) before this man? Or so to speak: ANY man? Not saying I will, but I am considering the pro's and con's right now...

RedRoses

Posted: 30 Sep 19:38

Actually, at the risk of sounding sexist, no.

Biologically and physiologically, it is the instinctive need for a woman to have children this can be persistent or to an extent almost non existant...if it is a conflict, you'd be compromising a lot more than he would be.

For instance, age-wise men will die sooner. :(

There's nothing wrong with you wanting a baby. To be honest, so do I...it's been a longing of mine to be a relatively youthful mother, but I'm also keeping in mind that a career and financial stability comes first.

The only issue that I have is that love is a give and take compromise. Ultimately, you wanting to have children might depend on whether or not ultimately he wants someone to carry on his legacy or generational line...if not, then there is a decision that might have to be made.

sensualGoddess

Posted: 30 Sep 19:38

When my late wife and I got married immediately after college, we had to elope because everyone thought it was a bad mistake and would not support us. So we basically ran away from all our friends and family and did as we pleased, rather impulsively. Maybe it was a stupid idea, but maybe not, because we were married for 33 years until her death 3 years ago. We did not marry to have children together, and had not really ever even discussed it at that point. After 5 or years together, grad school and some further running away, we came back, made our parents give us a wedding, and wanted kids of our own--by then, we were stable, happy, mature and sure of ourselves together. It turned out we could not have kids, for reasons we never figured out, and inasmuch as fertility treatments were pretty primitive 30 years ago, we ran that game for a short time and then decided to adopt. Our kids are 27 and 20 today, one from Korea and the other Vietnamese. They were too young to lose their mother, having already been orphans once, but I do what I can to make them feel they still have a family to belong to. But the TWO things one MUST be sure of before having kids is: You will be together forever, period--EVERY CHILD DESERVED TWO PARENTS, and second, that you have both the time and money to raise your kid(s). Kids should not be brought into the world without these two basic securities.
Michael

mikkiji

Posted: 30 Sep 19:39

Dear Michael, thank you for sharing this sad story. I'm so sorry you've lost your wife and mother to your children! This must be terrible for them and you... I appreciate it that you've posted this.

As for your points made: I also believe it would be preferable to have two parents. Although I didn't and turned out fine :)
I reckon that it was hard for my mom to raise us by herself, but as she says: it was a lot harder raising children while a husband was terrorizing the family (and keeping all the money to himself). I was an accident, conceived despite of pill-usage. He begged my mom to get rid of me, every day until the pregnancy had come too long way to abort (of course I didn't know this as a child). I've had contact with my father for 5 years after the divorce and then decided to not see him again, cause he literally made me sick (and didn't change his behavior, despite of childservices warning him). I'm thankfull my mom let me make both decisions by myself (to have contact and to not have), even though I was still a little girl... Since then I grew up to be a women with a strong opinion (and constant evaluation) on how to live my life... All I'm trying to say is; it's the most preferable to have both your parents, but I wouldn't consider my mom doing any lesser job on her own than other parents did with two :). I think I should be as strong as she was (and still is). Since there is always a chance the other parent will not be part of the life of me and my (future) child(ren) anymore, I think I should have the strength to carry on and raise them by myself. Still, I'm very much trying to find them a great father!

Dear Goddess, thank you for your understanding. It is an instinct, that has awoken in me as a young girl and grew very strong as a teenager, but I decided I would only obey as an adult. I did took the same thinking into account,
1) finish school
2) study and finish this
3) get a job (especially: one to my liking and that contributes to our planet, our people, etc.)
4) get a couple of years of working-experience
5) be financially independent
6) have child(ren) at the age which is
a) biologically best...
b) mentally has advantages: being able to adjust life to kids, instead of being stuck into habits...
c) emotionally (more) stable
0) Try and find a soulmate and future daddy somewhere in between all this...

So, been there, done that... And ready for 6! I really feel I've reached the age, after being so patient for so many years ;) And since I met my bf a couple of years ago and he seemed to be ready for this step soon, I just sat back like some Hannibal of the A-team, sigar in my hand, ready to put it in my mouth to mumble: 'I love it when a plan comes together' (not that I smoke, though, but neither does he in the series ;)) Instead: I'm running around like a headless chicken...

RedRoses

Posted: 30 Sep 19:40

> What is love when all you lead is separate lives?

That's a difficult question... I think our love was first of all based on trust and openness. When I met him, I hardly ever cried. With him I could (very surprising and confusing). I always tried to be 'cosy' when supposed to be, repressing every other emotion if necessary. With him, I could be myself. He accepts me totally the way I am. Acceptance, that would be the second. I felt a bond with him and he told me before I did how special it felt to him. At this moment in our lives; we were friends. He fell in love with me and showed this with a gentle caress. That's the third fundament of our love: gentle and lovable touch. He made me 'feel' my own body again, although I had lost contact with that a long time ago. Patience, that would be the fourth. I had bad sexual experiences in the past. He was being so patient with me, not rushing anything. And he listens to me patiently, every time again. And when I need to, he will rush himself to me to help me with anything, midnight or not. I don't know how to call this: Chivalry? By now, you must all understand how much he means to me...

"So what is missing?", I've been asking myself... I think what is missing is the will to share. We do share secrets and we share our bodies with each other. But at some point, a more practical point, this stops. I have asked him if there's anything he does not like about me, anything that keeps him from making these decissions, but there isn't. He loves me, thinks I'll be a great mother and couldn't think of anything I did that would keep him from living together. It's not me, but is the facts: * there would be 'someone' inside the house, which makes him feel uneasy whenever doing his own stuff. * he likes making his own decisions (which includes finances). * There is his lack of time and energy to consider, which I could not really call a choice... He could make some choices that would make it better, though. But that really is his to make... He's scared that he won't have enough energy for a baby. * He's afraid hat he'll forget thinking about himself, ruining himself in favor of the baby and me. He's afraid he'll have to give up his life for 20 years... *since he's older than I am; he considers himself to be too old for children...

and I can not tell this enough: THANK YOU! To everyone who's sharing stories and asking questions. You wouldn't know just how much this is helping me... And I hope the information in this thread will help others who are in the same situation or those who will be in the future as well!

RedRoses

Posted: 30 Sep 19:41

hmmmmm, just found out in several threads people are advised to quit their relationship because of differences in sexual desire (mostly: frequency). Even though the frequency of sex in our relationship is not at all desirable; there wouldn't be one braincel of me that would think about dumping him for that... It would be an addition at a list of undesirable things, though... and the sum of it all equals: ???

Well, I guess the answer to the question 'why to continue or end a relationship' lies in the importance/relevance; how important is something to you in the relationship? Maybe this also solves my riddle of whether I'd be too selfish or not to end my relationship over this :) Which means: I'll be making a list with pro's and con's sorted by relevance :) Sorry, bit of the analytical type here...

For one thing; he would remain my best friend, we promised eachother that. Although I'm just not sure what would change exactly, it's comforting...

Anyways, that was my braindump for 2day. Goodnight everyone! :)

RedRoses

Posted: 30 Sep 19:41

Another braindump, and this one is good (at least to me it is :))

I used to have a lifemotto that I actually forgot about since it is not in my face everyday anymore: "Sometimes on your way to a dream you get lost and find a better one" Meaning two things: you can't plan everything, sometimes things just bump into you. But also: you are allowed to dream and you may -or perhaps even: should- forge the ways toward those dreams.

I have forgotten to do both things lately... This entire thread signifies of how I am not daring to forge the way towards my dreams. And I actively took the seeds of a dream away once (by emergency anticonception), because it was not supposed to be. Because it was not planned. Because I was living another dream at the time which included love and (physical) satisfaction. And mostly because the possible unplanned effect was too frightening for my partner.

This post is here to remember me that I will do both from now on. And I'll certainly have my lifemotto engraved somewhere to make it stick :)

RedRoses

Posted: 30 Sep 19:41

WRONG, RG - you never permit your children to hurt you - EVER!

Permitting violence, physical or emotional, is not permitted within the family unit and permitted outside under strict conditions - self-defence or in defence of the defenceless.

Mothers must rule therefore forgiveness is not guaranteed.

Do I forgive mine? After a lecture they will never forget and a suitable punishment and penance - yes - in time. But they have to work to get it. I love them but they have to toe my line - not I their's.

EvilEvilKitten

Posted: 30 Sep 19:41

RedRoses,i am sorry to drag this thread up after so many months,but i am saddened by your story.I hope you are still wanting to realise your dream of becoming a mother.I have 3 children,none of them planned but i love them regardless of the circumstances of their conception(one borne from marital rape)and my then husband pushed me into having more children when i wasn't ready to cope,leading to post natal depression and anxiety.I lost a baby at 20 weeks pregnant due to a genetic disorder.My husband blamed me for this heart break leading to more depression and i couldn't stand to see pregnant women for a while without breaking down.I love my children they are what keep me going in this world but it can be hard especially when they are teenagers.I wish you all the best of luck RedRoses,i hope your dream comes true in the not too distant future.

raunchy gal

Posted: 30 Sep 19:43

Dear Raunchy Gal,
It actually contributes to a bit of reflection to read this thread again. Although I must say it's painful; as rather recently I was sure we were going to have a baby, which ended in early miscarriage... I also realize that in the light of my late posting combined with this old thread, I may be at risk of being called someone that "set him up". But that is not so! I simply can't do anything to hurt him. I love him with all my heart. Our situation is complicated... and yes: probably it is a bit sad.

I'm so sorry for how your husband mistreated you and the way your children came into this world, dear RG. I'm happy for you that they turned out to be unexpected gifts and have become your motivation in loving life. I admire your positive attitude!

RedRoses

Posted: 30 Sep 19:43

Wanting a child or children is a desire shared by both men and women - but at different times in their lives. Those who are adopted or have grown to adulthood without loving parents often want children even more. The idea of leaving a legacy, of "bone of my bone, flesh of my flesh", is a powerful natural desire. Unfortunately, not all such desires are fulfilled and the effect can destroy.

But no one is ever ready for children.

The emotional impact is overwhelming. You could discover feelings you never knew you had or dreamed you'd be capable of feeling.

I discovered that I'd cheerfully and without any remorse slaughter everyone else on the planet to spare my children a moment's anxiety. The ferocity took even me by surprise.

EvilEvilKitten

Posted: 30 Sep 19:43