OP: why is male bisexuality not acceptable?

For some reason people seem to need labels. They also like to deal in black and white issues- the "us" and "them" syndrome.

I have found the best way to deal with this is the philosophy: It's not what you call me, but what I answer to.

Out of curiosity, does it bother you that people might think you are gay?

oberon

Posted: 30 Sep 23:23

thanks. No I'm not gay, it's rather the other way around: it bothers me that in clubs or anywhere else girls seem to have the freedom to experience other girls while, altough that I'm straight, would also like to have an experience with some guys. But this is like off limits to almst any people I know.
so what bothers me is like that girls seem to get very easily what I couldn't do without taking a high risk of probably losing several friends.

Marselluss

Posted: 30 Sep 23:23

well i think its maybe that always girl friends have usually been closer than guys.
like its nothing for girls to change in front of eachother, sleep in the same bed, hug and give kisses (just friendly ones).
girls who are friends are just on a more intimate level than guys i think.
so if a guy was to be too intimate w/ another guy even just on a friend level he's considered gay.
plus, here lately w/ crazy spring breaks and videos like girls gone wild, its the hip and trendy thing to do is make out w/ your girl friends.
most say they do it just to get attention and attract guys b/c guys think its hott.
its the typical male fantasy to have or see 2 girls together. i on the other hand don't think id find it as attractive to see 2 guys make out. but thats just me

demonbuttercup

Posted: 30 Sep 23:23

I don't think men have a deep feeling for their friends but they are not allowed to touch each other, even best friends, otherwise it's considered gay. isn't it interesting? if men only touch each other they are labelled gay, but even if women, kiss, hug, and even make out most people will not be sure to say "yes they are lesbians". weird isn't it?

the only place where you will see men hugging etc is sports, just watch soccer world championships.

I for my part think it's very sad that men are not allowed to be more intimate. why? because we LACk something. we miss something really great, simply because of a stupid image that says "this is a real man" etc.
and it also makes us way more NEEDY towards women, because we only can get it with them.

Marselluss

Posted: 30 Sep 23:23

yes i think its bad that guys can't be more intimate even if it is on just a friend level.
i guess its the whole "macho" stereotype that doesn't allow guys to show as much feelings, etc.

demonbuttercup

Posted: 30 Sep 23:23

>>i guess its the whole "macho" stereotype that doesn't allow guys to show as much feelings, etc.<<

yes at least something like taht. we have an image that a real guy is "independent" so he has to "stand alone" and be strong for himself. We have the image that a guy that is needy or simply affectionate is not a strong "real man" and therefore not attractive.

I think we have way more labels which say "this is a real man" and "this is not" whereas I don't think we have that for women.

most men are afraid of gays because a man has to proof ALL THE TIME that he is a man, so being together with a gay man or if some think you are then most guys feel threatened by it, simply because it jeopardizes their constant efforts to proof that they are a real man.
silly isn't it?

an interesting aspect if I think about this then men have way more obstacles in their way when it comes to being intimate or just experiment with other guys:
- the fear of being labelled gay
- it's not seen as attractive
- people have strong opinions about this

whereas for women it seems to me
- nobody sees it as unnatural
- people see it as sexy or beautiful to see two women
- women are by nature closer to each other
- nobody will attack you, bash you or even harm you just for doing this.
- you are THE attraction at a party or in a disco if two women make out.

btw, WHAT obstacles do women actually have? I don't see really any...

Marselluss

Posted: 30 Sep 23:24

When it comes down to same sex relations, you're right when you say women dont really have many obstacles about it.

Over the years past and future, stereotypes are being dwelled into our children's beliefs, allowing them to accept only what they have been taught through their upbringing.

Men in particular will be a huge influence on today's society as far as pointing out "rights" and "wrongs" of sexual relationships. Personally, i believe there is no right or wrong, everybody is different.

The majority of Men get turned on at the site of two women gettin' it on, and that's meant to be totally normal, yet should two guys ever encounter in those actions, (depending on where you live) your life is at risk the moment you walk out the door.

It's true when people tend to catagorize gays from straights, and that happens to be a sad case in todays society. Only VERY SLOWLY are people coming to terms that gay is OKAY! Men tend to think that they are gods gift to the world and they are the best looking of them all. Because over the years the stereotype of a man has been "masculine and non-emotional" or show's "very little emotion", this further proves their masculinity and gives an image of "No Fear" and for most men, it's the bait for the women. However, straight men tend see gay men in a more feminine manner. Take this scenario for example:
Bob the straight guy sits at a park bench reading the paper. Whilst reading, he takes a quick glance up and see's Patty the gay guy walking his miniture Jack Russel, Flocksy. Without a second, Bob starts to sweat, and gets all nervous because he thinks Patty just might want to go up and crack onto him, afterall, he is walking Bob's way! Without looking back, Patty continues to walk Flocksy on his merry way and thinks nothing of Bob.

The point i'm getting at here is that the majority of men in our society are just like Bob. They always think if a gay guy's around, he's gonna crack on to him. If he's not going to crack onto him, he's going to give him the "wink" or even worse, he might just want to have a normal adult conversation - oh no!

But what really gets to me is when a straight guy will have a seat free next to him, and should a gay guy sit there, he will get up straight away and stand up rather than sit next to him. That to me is TOTAL disrepect towards their feelings and choice of sexual gender and there is absolutely nothing both parties can do to stop a gay being gay. If a woman sits next to you, does that mean she's turned on by you? HELL NO! Same theory goes - even gay men have their particular tastes, it's not and never will be a one size fits all world!

All in all, straight guys tend to think too much of themselves, literally. They tend to obsess on gay men and degrade them to make themselves look like their a master of power. Not only that, but gay men know how to dress - and women like that! They can't let a gay guy win the hearts of our women, even for friendship, and in any game, the man must win!

Bewitching

Posted: 30 Sep 23:24

Let's not confuse the idea of two women together with lesbians. The reason most straight guys find "lesbians" appealing is the notion that somehow they are going to be included in the action, even if as only an observer. Most lesbians I know would not find that tolerable at all. It is when some straight men realize that the women are not interested in them in the least that lesbians are at risk of danger.

I think that some straight men consider all gay men to be weak and effeminate. These same men probably also think of women as the weaker sex, somehow less than men. They may think of gay men this way because they only see those who stand out- the obvious "sissy". I think for most of us, we can blend in, and a lot of straight guys don't realize that.

I have heard the idea that they think a gay man might come on to them. I don't understand that at all; haven't they heard of "Just say no"? Most reasonable people understand the concept of "I'm not interested in you" and they will leave you alone.

I also have a theory: the more attractive and confident a straight man is, the less upset he is at the idea of a gay man finding him interesting. Why is it always the most unappealing straight guys who seem so worried a gay guy might hit on them?

oberon

Posted: 30 Sep 23:24

>>I also have a theory: the more attractive and confident a straight man is, the less upset he is at the idea of a gay man finding him interesting. Why is it always the most unappealing straight guys who seem so worried a gay guy might hit on them? <<

totally agree with that! I even bring up that topic just to test some of my friends. it's THE topic to check out how confident and how relaxed some people are.

why is a threat to so many? here is my theory: sadly enough the man has to proof ALL THE TIME that he is a real man, if it's in sports, at the job, in front of women etc... Now if a gay man approaches him or he is seen with a gay guy and people could only think he is gay (e.g for many gay seems to be equal with "no real man") then it jeopardizes his efforts to show off what kind of man he is.

women don't have to proof themselves all the time, that's what' makes them relaxed also in terms of sexuality.

Marselluss

Posted: 30 Sep 23:24

Ok, i'll chime in here now! Clearly there is a double standard out there.....but lets keep the core issues separate: Sex and Emotional Bonding.

There's little doubt that our society says its "OK" for 2 women to dance together or hold hands walking down the street, all because of a genuine affection they have for each other, whichin MOST cases in non sexual!

I use the analogy of going to almost any wedding and you'll see many gals up there dancing with each other and having fun. No one thinks twice or says "Oh, they must be gay."

Now, for men, their non-sexual appropriate affection must be confied only to sporting events or other monumental events where the rules of man2man affection are temporarilty suspended. Now, remember, we are talking about the USA here - euorpeans have a much more liberal view of male/male affection.

Now, if you're talking about sexual exploration or actual sexual relationships with folks of the same sex, thats totally differnt. It's almost impossible to separate sex from emotions. So, if you're talking about finding a guy, who can be your "buddy" watching sports or going to a game or to a bar, and also that same guy who's comfortable with being sexually intimate wtih you, is NOT going to be easy to find - but not impossible.

Bisexuality will always be viewed as "having your cake and eating it too." Sexually, while i'm GAY, i COULD have sex with a woman again should i want to. Why? Because being GAY or STR8 is NOT about sex, it's about LOVE.

So, being bi doubles your chances of being able to get laid on any particular nite, but it has never really addressed the issue of "who do you want as yoru life partner - a guy or a gal." I suppose it dosn't really matter in teh big sceme of things, but jsut know that society will always view bisexuality as ALL ABOUT SEX, and someone who's either confused about their overall sexuality or someone who KNOWS they are gay and is afraid of being "out" and so carries on the charade. not my rules, just public perception.

Bottom line is, you'll have to look in the gay and bi websites for guys who are like you. To help you experiment with things both emotinoally and sexually. It's also important to note that there are MANY women who find bi sexual men as being very desireable, so dont' discount looking for a woman who'll suupport your bisexuality!

Feel free to write me directly, having lived both the traditional Str8 life (wife, house, career, kids, etc) and now living a totally gay life (happily in a 7 year relationship)...i have a good insight on such things!

Rawbob

Posted: 30 Sep 23:25

I really do think it has to do with being thought of as less than a man. I think a lot of straight men tend to view sex as a competition-may the BEST MAN win.

I'm not sure I'm going to say this correctly, so bear with me.
Men tend to enter anything sexually very intensely. For example take a strip club:

Go to a men's strip club and the atmosphere is focused. The men sort of reminiscent of carnivores at the zoo at feeding time. You don't get the sense that they are having fun, more that they are on the hunt.

Women's strip clubs, however, are loud, party-like events.
The women scream and cat-call and generally have a rousing good time. For them this seems not as serious.

Women don't seem to need to prove anything sexually, where as men seem compelled to be the best- the king of the jungle.

I think it is social conditioning. You act how you are taught, and you become how you act. A lot of gay men have been called "sissy", "fag" and "queer" all their lives, and the backlash is to adopt those personas to the utmost. They tend to accept this to the point that they refuse to do anything "like those straight guys". Maybe this is more of the strive to be the best, even if it is the best "fag".

Straight men do the same. To the extent that they will do nothing that might remotely be considered "queer".

I'm pig-headed enough that I refuse to kowtow to this notion. I'll do what I want whether it upsets someone's idea of how gay men are "suppose" to act or not. But for most people being different is too hard.

It is always easier to be part of a group even if that group is despised. Maybe that is the reason bisexuals have a hard time is they are not really members of either group but part of both.

Gee, I think I'm even still on subject here.lol

oberon

Posted: 30 Sep 23:25

There's really no support behind saying that being bi is remotely about love. If you're gay, you can at least attempt to argue that nature screwed you up so that you are only attracted to the same sex. (we won't actually start that argument though) When you're bi, you say that you can only find love with..... both sexes? But if you're talking about that "real" love and all, you'll only be in love with one person, right? And this one person is either going to be male or female, correct? So that means that you are either homo or hetero. Maybe you can flip back and forth between them whenever you have the desire for a change, but you can't be both at once. Not if you're talking about love.

Being bi just means that you like to screw 'em both. Just go ahead and admit it.

mike

Posted: 30 Sep 23:26

Such vitriol. With a more positive outlook, I don't believe nature "screws up"; I think there is a sound biological reason for homosexuality such as overpopulation and the ability to take on responsibilities that those with small children cannot.

While I am 100% gay, I believe that you can fall in love, "real
love", with a person-not their genitals. If you are lucky enough to be sexually attracted as well, then you are bisexual.

Do I understand how bisexuals feel? No, but then I don't understand how heterosexuals feel, either. I am, however, broadminded enough to allow that they have these feelings. And I realize they aren't forcing me to feel any certain way. So when they are open and honest about their sexuality, how are they harming anyone?

What it comes down to, for me, is: If you are not gay and don't want to have gay sex, DON'T. If you are not bi and don't think that being bi is o.k., then DON'T BE BI AND DON'T DATE ANYONE BI.

But, for God's sake, DON'T tell me how I HAVE to live.

oberon

Posted: 30 Sep 23:26