Unfortunately for her, men's main mission in life is, in fact, SEX. That is why we have gender at all and do not reproduce by parthenogenesis. We do the pair-bond thing to ensure the survival of the offspring. YOU are doing what you should. SHE is not. BTW her refusing is another way to emphasize sex.

But she is not frigid. What she has is "control issues". She does not like to lose control at all - and she's done a pretty good job at controlling you. I say only pretty good because you're complaining. If her control was absolute, you'd be happy with what you're getting.

Thus far you have tried everything "nice". Counseling may or may not work. By all means give it a try. But in addition to that, or instead - see how you feel, you could take a page from my playbook and give her more sex than she ever dreamed possible. Just say the hell with it, and swing for the bleachers.

Begin with a massage - gentle at first, then increase the pressure until she's soooo relaxed she's like a puddle of mush. Then turn the massage erotic by adding in body worship and keep it up until she's demanding sex. Do not stop at two orgasm. Keep it up until she has rolling orgasms and has flushed red, broken out in a sweat, and bcome a puddle of protoplasm. Do this frequently and see if she doesn't change her mind.

Good luck!

EvilEvilKitten

"Then turn the massage erotic by adding in body worship"

This is a new term for me. Can you explain what you mean exactly?

I'm definately thinking I need to find some way to really throw her a curve ball in bed and see if that breaks us out of the mold.

But I'm also not sure where, or how far, to take it. If I'm overly aggressive it might turn her off, or make her all the more passive during sex. I'd like things to get a little more kinky but I've never had any luck breaking her inhibitions.

e_room_matt

The rut you are in is very common. I hate the term frigidity but the psychoanalysts of 100 years ago gave it to us and it is rather descriptive. Many, many couples live most of their lives in this state. Truth be known, neither is ever satisfied - sexually or otherwise. We would all be surprised at how many sexless marriages there are by the mid-30s.

The measurements you have made are all spot on. We women do have a few days of enhanced recepticity around ovulation time. The hormones do that for us but that seems to be the only time she is receptive at all.

The suggestions for counselling are the best advice you can get. Your own efforts are more likely to stiffen her position and it gets worse and worse. There are likely other issues in your marriage as well, even if you two are not aware of them.

If she is willing, go for it and do not make sex the opening issue. The counsellor will get you there.

Brandye

Body worship:

begin at her head or at her feet
and lick, suck, nibble, caress, bite, lightly scratch, tease, snuggle, nuzzle your way slowly (oh so slowly) to the other end using hands, mouth, your fur if you have any, penis, your entire body in fact

just think of two snakes mating - sliding over and around eachother

aah! excuse me for a minute fanning self.... something I have to do..

EvilEvilKitten

I feel your pain, it sounds like we are in the exact same boat.

I may try the counselling route, it'll be a bit difficult b/c closest counsellor is two hours away

Keep updating if anything works.
I'm highly skeptical about the "body worship", I've tried that (and everything else sexually related) with my wife to see if it helps but nothing ever improves her sex drive.

Brandye may be right, it could be an underlying problem somewhere else.

underpressure

ITA, therapy is a good place to start. Woman are different when it comes to sex, they need their egos stroked. They need you to do house cleaning w/ out being asked & w/ out any motive for pleasure in return. If you do that stuff, we tend to like you more & eventually want you too.

It could be so many issues why this is happening, mental or physical. I think couples therapy to REALLY discuss things would be the best choice moving forward. It can't hurt anything, right?

GL

bruins76

Dang you HAVE tried everything!!!

It doesn't sound like you are placing TOO much emphasis on sex... but it should at least be existant.
I am somewhat in that same place where my sex drive is no where near my B/Fs, but I do at least try different positions...and I give/receive oral w/ no probs really.

How old is your wife??

I have tried to come to realize that it is about compromise and that I might not always be in the mood....but I try to accomodate him when possible. I sometimes find if I end up "helping" him out...that turns out I am in the mood to play. For me it's just getting the ball rolling that I have trouble w/.... once it's in motion... I am good to go.

I don't know.. like what would she do if ya'll were in bed....watching tv...and you just started masturbating??? Would she lend a hand? or freak out and leave? lol
Like I said above, my b/f has done this... I feel weird at first...but then I'll help him out a little and usually end up having sex. Altho, sometimes I will just help out and that'll be the end of it lol.

demonbuttercup

In regards to my wife. She's 27. Early in the relationship (college years) we definately had a more active sex life in terms of quantity (3-4 times per week). I graduated a year earlier than her and we had periods were we wouldn't see each other for several weeks. Those were always passionate reunions (don't know if I'd say 'worth the wait' exactly, but good).

I will say one of the things I miss most is that look in her eyes. I haven't seen that excited, 'gonna pounce on you,' look in years.

I wondered if I needed to do something physically to try and get those "college years" back. I'm pretty much your average white guy physically (5'10 170 pounds). This spring I dropped 10 pounds, toned up a little, got a new hairstyle and clothes. Didn't seem to make a difference in the bedroom though.

In regards to the masterbation idea, I haven't tried it. I'll try anything. We're comfortable enough with each other that I think I could try it and she wouldn't leave or anything. More likely she make some coy "are you serious" remark. Might work occasionally but I don't think it would be a consistant solution.

I mentioned that she says "I put too much emphasis on sex," because she probably has some a point somewhere in there. There is some history of compultion in my family and I definately and dependant on sex in this relationship. I'd have sex twice a day with her given the option, and I think she sees me as a a beast that cannot be fed sometimes.

That being said, there is no doubt in my mind she is putting no effort into our sex life. It feels like it is as much to shut me up as anything. But she sure as hell gets some world class service when we do it so its hard to understand her could-care-less attitude.

e_room_matt

As stated you need to get to a professional therapist.

She has no right to tell you how you feel--you place too much emphasis on sex. You are entitled to the way you feel.

Her? Why is she so unwilling to compromise?

Good places to begin.

sera300

I have to commend you for trying so hard! You are "spot on" with regards to the counselling. It definitely takes two to do this successfully. She may have some hormonal issues? Only her doctor can tell you that. Perhaps you make the first move and try a marriage/sex counsellor/therapist. Ask her to help you with this. She might reconsider counselling if you go first. It's obvious she has some sort of issue. Was she like this before marriage? before the child? I'm of the opinion that a professional is needed here, try going on your own first. Good Luck

HardNgood

Wow. Flashback 2.5 years!

Have to admit we are pretty much in the same place (1 more kid now).

"...you'd better think back to what you did to tell her that her pouncing on you was 'unacceptable'. "

What a mind bending question. I don't know what to tell you. The quick answer is I don't think I did anything. I know nobody feels like "they" change of course, but frankly I don't think either of us have substantially. It is the situation that changed.

It was easy for her to be more sexual when we were in college because there were no obligations (although she rarely "pounced" even then). But the days of getting drunk and fooling around on a Tuesday night are over. Kids, work, house, etc all get priority now.

Of course, I note a little improvement when I take some pressure off her (get the house clean, get the kids to bed, etc) but I'm at my limit there. I work. She doesn't. I handle a good chunk of the house chores already (dishes, getting kids up and dressed and fed in the morning, bathing kids, garbage, feeding cat, kitty litter, etc). I can do no more and haven't been bowled over by the results anyway.

She's gotten involved with a local theatre group over the last few years and about twice a year she'll do a musical (which takes up her evenings for about 3 months at time....ug). I'd hoped this would be good for her, in a lot of ways it has been. She's made some friends and enjoys having a creative outlet and route to destress from kids for a few hours. But it adds so much damn pressure on me to take over the house and kids the second I get home from work till 10 at night that I turn into a bit of a stressed out asshole....killing any chance it has to improve our love life.

If you resurrected this thread to ask where I am at today, I guess I am just trying to be more accepting that this is who she is and try to improve things in terms of the quality of our sex rather than quantity. I'm hoping the program can help us there.

Sorry, you are catching me on a bad night. Fighting a cold, stressed at work, house is a mess, kids are fussy. 2 hours to go till mommy gets home...

e_room_matt

Can you afford $50 a week? Then get a cleaning service in to do kitchen and bathrooms. Fussy kids = hungry & tired so feed, run through the shower and then into bed. You = shove dishes and pots into dishwasher then sit down, relax, watch the news. YOU are in control and responsible for your emotions - no one else is. Accept this before you go any further. Often it isn't what is happening but how we react to it that is the problem.

"I work. She doesn't. I handle a good chunk of the house chores already (dishes, getting kids up and dressed and fed in the morning, bathing kids, garbage, feeding cat, kitty litter, etc). I can do no more and haven't been bowled over by the results anyway."

and

"But it adds so much damn pressure on me to take over the house and kids the second I get home from work till 10 at night that I turn into a bit of a stressed out asshole....killing any chance it has to improve our love life."

Basically, your attitude is killing your chances of ever returning your lovelife back to what it once was.

1. Stop blaming your wife for how you feel. That's your responsibility.
2. Stop expecting to be rewarded for doing work around the house.
3. Learn to be more efficient and effective to control/decrease stress.

Next: get the kids to help out. Most kids can get dressed and get themselves down to the kitchen for breakfast even two year olds can do this. I have 2 and 3 year olds helping to do laundry, making beds, handing me spices during cooking, tidying up and moving the plugs on the vacuum cleaner amongst other chores. Put Beethoven's 9th on the stereo, crank it up and make a party out of the work.

It is your attitude and your life so OWN it instead of fighting and resenting it. Resentment positively pours out of your post below. You seem to have the idea that she just lays around the house eating bon-ons all day. PFFFT.

Instead of cruises and vacations - hire a weekly cleaning service, install decent appliances and get your lives back together.

EvilEvilKitten

Wow I kind of ranted last night, sorry.

First off I don't think my wife eats bon-bons all day. I fully believe we work as equals during the day. It is the stuff after 6 pm that I think is unequal.

By the time I get home at 6 she has been stuck with the kids all day and is ready to be done. She is tired of picking up after them, tired of changing diapers, tired of being needed.

I get that. I'd feel the same way. But after 6 pm that all falls on me. I handle it, but that is what is killing my attitude.

I recognize that my attitude is killing our sex life. But the only outlet I have to correct my attitude is to get some distance from everybody and relax by myself for an hour. The problem here is that I've spent zero time my wife by this point and can't expect her to feel all romantic when we'ver barely spoken all day. I've dug myself into a catch 22.

1 is well put. I am trying to keep this in mind.

2 is a challenge. I am expected to motivate myself to take more pressure off my wife so that she can feel less stressed and blossum sexually. But I am not expected to act like I should be rewarded for doing more work. This is hard line to walk.

3. I am working on this, but it is easier said than done. We have a 1 year old and a 4 year old. There is very little the one year old can do obviously. I am trying to find better outlets for stress relief. Ironically the best one I know of is sex.

e_room_matt

Do you commute? Does your commute last for an hour? If so USE it. Crank up your tunes and, once again, make a party out of the work of your commute. Have fun with it.

Yes, life is hectic and can be stressful but, frankly, it is all in your attitude. You cannot change your wife but you can make the decision to lighten your attitude at home, to stop resenting not having time alone.

For one thing - change the focus of your home. Yes, the kids are important and you love them to death but you fit them into your life, not you into theirs. So, they play during the day, but after 6 pm, it is parent time. You have to show them that being an adult brings fun and priviledges that children don't get.

Pick a night and make it a date with your wife. No nap that day and then an early dinner, a bath and then early bed for them. Now it is time for you two to relax together, a bit of dinner, maybe a bit of music with lowered ligths - whatever. Then you can see if The Program will have more effect.

Do this once a week to begin with and take your time over this.
You may dislike the idea of scheduling a date night with your wife, but seriously, you need to. By having a set date and time and the idea of what to do to bring this about - it gives some order to your life and gives both of you something to look forward to and puts a little skip in your life. There you are at work and suddenly "Hey! I get to snuggle up with my wife tonight!" will pop into your head and life doesn't seem all that bad any more.

Now then:

1. no more Mr. Grumpy, no whining, no complaining - you're a knight in shining armor full of derring do instead - nothing's beyond your powers of conquest - and no pouting. Change from work to home during your commute.

2. Schedule a weekly date night - doesn't have to be the same night each week - check your obligations and set them up for the entire month in advance.

3. Relax. This whole sex thing - well, this is not The Olympics and no one's keeping score so if not tonight, nevermind. There's time to work this out. "Papa Bear" needs to be cool, calm and confident to inspire and reassure "Mama Bear".

No you don't have to be handsome to be the man she dreams of because there's nothing more attractive than the gravitas of the mature male. And it is all attitude.

You've got it. Now put it to work - the right way.

EvilEvilKitten