OP: Christian Sex Educator dealing with stds because of men in the closet

I feel compelled to issue a warning... this board has some very "pro gay" posters that are sometimes a bit radical - you may well get flamed for "attacking" men "in the closet," etc. and the statement that "AIDS is a reward for sin." While I do not consider myself a member of that group, I will say that your post does suggest you have an "anti gay" agenda and I believe you have a right to those beliefs. You do not, however, have a right to demand that others adopt and promote those beliefs in the name of religion or medicine.

I don't think you have that right any more than I think gays have the right to do likewise, even though it is done often.

Your beliefs are not going to help your cause - if your cause is preventing STDs. And, unfortunately, you are encouraging the sometimes radical "pro gay" position.

That warning issued, I'd say that what you have is a medical issue, not a religious issue. You wouldn't ask religious leaders to preach in favor of flu shots, would you?

I suppose it would be appropriate to suggest to the religious community that messages regarding marital fidelty, etc. are in order, although I'm not sure you are qualified to tell religious leaders what they should be preaching.

If you are a Sexual Health Educator, educate. As an educator, you have a responsibility to remain somewhat objective and to impart knowledge, not your personal beliefs, unless, of course, you are educating in a closed system such as a "Christian" School.

Contact the CDC or your local Public Health Department for factual information and distribute that information. Enlist their assistance in combating STD's from ALL sources.

Forgive my intensity, but I've been "attacked" by that radical pro-gay element. I do not accept that irrational attack and implication that I'm somehow a lesser person because I'm assumed to be a straight white male. Posts such as yours actually encourage that belief because you seem to be using the same narrow-minded bias filled approach that anyone who does not believe as you do is somehow inferior.

You were right, you are asking a lot. Sign me up to help combat STD's, but do not expect me to tolerate bigotry and prejudice, pro-gay or anti-gay.

WallyLlama

Posted: 30 Sep 05:54

Yeah, I agree that Education, not Religion is the answer. I'm taking a HIV service learning course in college this year, so of course I see the medical side of the issue.

For the most part, these "closet men" are forced to be in the closet by society. If homosexuality was a little more accepted, these men wouldn't feel the need to get married to give off the "persona" of a straight male. They wouldn't feel the need to go outside of their marriage.
My teacher was talking about the idea of how AIDS is punishment for gay people. Then she was like, well GOD must loovvvee lesbians, lol. Only because lesbians are highly less likely to contract AIDS from eachother than gay men. Given the types of sexual things they do.

I agree you should go to a health dept and get some education pamphlets and condoms to pass out. I could message you the email addresses of my teachers. They've been doing HIV education for over 15 years, so they've heard it all and know what needs to be done. Just let me know

demonbuttercup

Posted: 30 Sep 05:54

Hi Lixme, and welcome to the board.

As you can see, both Demonbuttercup and Wally are both experienced and wise folks posting on this site, and I hope you'll heed both their warning and advice....because i AM a gay man, and i WAS married, and DID feel compelled to hide my true self due to the fear and overt intimidation that comes from both our religious institutions and society as a whole.

You looking for a way to convice religious leaders to talk about HIV/AIDS, and sexual abstinence among men who are either married or single and engaging in homosexual acts is like asking the fox to guard the henhouse.

As long as the religious community equates HIV/AIDS as a punishment from god, you're NOT going to get those men to even remotely consider any kind of converation - nevermind dialogue.

The "Hate the sin, love the sinner" is a noble statment, but unfortunatly most religious folks seem to NOT put it into practice. Remember how Jesus walked among the sick and lepers? Remember how he called his followers to be AMONG the prostitutes and be there WITH THEM?

What ever happend to LOVE ONE ANOTHER AS I HAVE LOVED YOU? Does "AIDS is the penalty of your sinning" sound like love?

IF we could all look at HIV/AIDS the way we did POLIO the world would look at the US and many other developed countries in a much more positive way...but since HIV/AIDS is transmitted by blood and semen, then religious zealots will always call this a sin-related disease - how sad that we can't join togeather to CURE a disease that afflicts over 40million people across the globe.

Remember, "we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of god"....and "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." Do we ALL conveniently forget such verses in the bible...or do we only look at the RATH of God..not the LOVE of god.

It's amazing how your post is tilted towards the concern for the MEN AND WOMEN who become infected by their husbands/wives/partners ...but you only seem to talk about the MEN who are having sex with other men!

Once again, the religious folks out there like to pick and choose WHO they help and love and are ready to just chuck the rest of the "sinners" into hell. Is this a good answer to WHAT WOULD JESUS DO? I think not!

So, you'll forgive me if i can't come up with any recommendations about your quandry. Perhaps the pastors and preachers and priests who seem to be constantly in the news about sexual abuse of children, sex with married women and other sin's they commit - and leave the education about safer sex to those who truely DO care about REALLY helping those at most risk to HIV/AIDS.

GOD HELPS THOSE WHO HELP THEMSELVES, and threatening people with eternal damnation is a far cry from being a caring christian.

Rawbob

Posted: 30 Sep 05:55

I am not attacking any members of society, regardless of their beliefs. I have great success with sex ed and outreach in general.
I live in a community with tons of churches and the members of those churches need to be aware of the problems in their community. I posted my question that way because these are the arguments I keep running into and although it is like asking the fox to guard the hen house, I feel a need to reach these people because they are endangering us all.
Also, I am not attacking sexual orientation either. I couldn't care less who you do. I care about how you do it (safety-wise).
So please, get off the podium. I just need some helpful hints if you have any. I know there are 'progressive' church leaders who talk about these issues so I am not completely off my rocker.
Thank You

lixme

Posted: 30 Sep 05:55

Ok, I was gonna respond, but I think I should just back off this one for now... Dont wanna get too harsh... cause I'm seriously ticked off right now... so yeah see ya

monie

Posted: 30 Sep 05:55

Hi Lixme,

I understood your post... you are asking how to deal with people who have "Christian" beliefs that are preventing them from being honest about their sexuality and this is causing them to engage in dangerous behavior putting at risk not only themselves but their wives.

They believe that AIDS is God's punishment and the only cure prayer. Anyone got evidence of that working?

I'd say your only hope is to fight against their prejudices and try to get as many as possible to be honest (at least with themselves) about their sexual orientation. Make condoms as freely available as possible and make SURE they know the facts regarding how HIV is spread. I'm constantly amazing at what some people don't know. One guy I met thought that you could only get AIDS in the "big city". Apparently, it wasn't supposed to be able to get to the suburbs.

I appreciate what you are doing. I think ignorance is a worse disease than AIDS and that's the one you have to defeat first.

Good luck and take care.

Wow! I got through that and not one spark...

oberon

Posted: 30 Sep 05:56

Thanks Oberon!

lixme

Posted: 30 Sep 05:56

Not to sound insensitive, but my first thoguht was "God created condoms...USE THEM"
I'm gonna go look for my brain now

LittleFury

Posted: 30 Sep 05:56

Another class approached this subject that men who have "down low" sex with other men don't really see it as gay. They see it as just a fetish. I think a good point was that of encouraging faithfulness rather than abstinence.

demonbuttercup

Posted: 30 Sep 05:56

Well, my sincere apologies to Lixme. I confess that I did misread the original post and in so doing ascribed beliefs to you that you apparently do not hold. I'd suggest that it was due to my state of mind from another thread, but that would be making excuses. It's more appropriate to simply say, "I'm sorry."

If you can read past that error, my fundamental suggestion doesn't change. I believe the key to solving a problem is to focus on the problem and not cloud it with other issues.

As this thread demonstrates, we're now barely talking about women catching life-threatening diseases from cheating husbands. At least Little Fury's got it. This is not a complex issue. It's about responsibility and unprotected sex.

Social engineering and religion are not a solutions to the problem of people catching aids. Let's stop worrying about men being "forced" into the closet and worry about the women who are catching life-threatening diseases from cheating husbands. Doesn't matter if hubby caught it from a guy, a woman, or a sheep. He's killing his wife.

Some of the rhetoric sounds like "well if men could be openly gay they wouldn't cheat on their wives and we wouldn't have this problem."

Not every sexual problem is a gay right's issue.

Ask those progressive religious leaders to preach about marital fidelity... maybe if they're really progressive they'll even explain that having unprotected sex outside of marriage is akin to "killing" your spouse. MOST religions will agree that murder is wrong.

I'm being a little tongue in cheek, but also trying to demonstrate a point. I think the starting point is to figure out what the agreements are and work from those. As I attempted to say in my first post, you'll have a lot more success signing people up (religious leaders as well) if you focus on the health issue and leave the surrounding stuff out of it. While we're debating theology and gay issues, people are dying.

As a bit of an afterthought, one of the myths that gets put forth by NOT focusing on the fundamental issue is that AIDS is somehow a "gay" disease. Take the gay issue out of it. AIDS is a growing problem among heterosexuals. Let's see some stastics, shall we? I "heard" (and am not claiming this as a fact because I didn't confirm it) that it's growing fastest among young single women...

WallyLlama

Posted: 30 Sep 05:57

I read what was posted, and understand what she was asking and i WAS on my podium!

She's asking how to we tell women to be aware of having unprotected sex with men - especially because so many men are having sex with other men!

Ok, good question, but the first question is, will the religious leaders ACKNOWLEGE THAT KIDS AND ADULTS ARE HAVING SEX!

I understand that it's a preacher/priest/rabbi's job to preach abstainance and that adultery is wrong....but too many turn a blind eye to reality.

Now, there are MANY progressive churches who have active outreach programs, private and group counseling services and other type programs on the issues of STD's/HIV/AIDS awareness and prevention.

If you would like some links to those churches, i would be happy to do so,but just know that mainstream religions do not even accept these churches as being "truely christian"

Now, the "on the down low" and men cheating on their wives/girlfriends and giving them STD's IS a very bad problem - more so in Africa, Asia and other European countries that here in the USA. However, i do not belive that any SPECIAL treatment needs to be given to "in the closet" men as opposed to str8 men who have sex with strange women, prostitutes or any otehr woman. Unsafe sex, is unsafe sex without regard to where the man may put his penis!

WHy are you singling out "in the closet" men? What is your true agenda?

Rawbob

Posted: 30 Sep 05:57

That is exactly the kind of Christian we should all be who claim to be Christian. I enjoyed your post very much eDJ. I have been in a mind controling Christian group that twisted around the Bible to suit their own purpose. I know first hand the extreme damage they can do.

The Bible is absolutely not for private interpretation and it is to interpret itself. People don't do that and hince we have a ton of Christian Denominations that have their own agenda.

I also agree with you Rawbob that Unsafe sex, is unsafe sex without regard to where the man may put his penis!

What is needed in the world is hard core education and not trying to scare people with hell. Fear is never a very good method unless it is back with cold hard facts. For the clergy to just say they are going to hell is just not good enough and they should do a much better job.

Tessie

Posted: 30 Sep 05:57

My agenda is to give sexual health education.
The reason I am targeting men on the down low is because our group voted on which population to work with at our school this year and we chose women of color and gay men of color, specifically (D.L. men aren't considered gay, but they affect women).
What we have found/experienced is that there is a lot of homophobia in our communities of color. We are working on an approach to reach women of color on many levels because they are the ones contracting HIV at the highest rates right now. So we're looking at all the possible ways this is happening and what contributes to a person's life to enable them to engage in risky behavior. Many women are getting HIV even thought they are in monogamous relationships. So our approach to HIV education this year will involve its links to racism, poverty, IV drug use, survival sex and infidelity. Heavy issues. A number of our target population are christians and we are trying to find language and ideas that don't offend anyone, since we are trying to give information to the public so they can make more informed decisions in their behaviors.
Thanks for the good suggestions!

lixme

Posted: 30 Sep 05:58

Thank you, Rawbob! It's nice to hear a gay person speak who doesn't think every sexual issue is only important when and in the way it affects gays! I know we haven't always agreed on everything, but I respect your lack of obsession with "gayness" and your willingness to look at larger issues.

In my opinion (and again, as this thread demonstrates) selecting target populations only distracts from the important message. Intentional or not, it smacks of social engineering and, in fact, can deepen prejudices and turn off potential bases of support.

To effectively state "we're most concerned with gays of color" and then try to find language that "won't offend" organizations that are undeniably prejudiced...? Not only does it not help the cause (if the cause is reducing STDs), but it drives the prejudice even deeper. It's called, "asking for a fight."

That's not pro-gay; that's not anti-gay. It's common sense.

WallyLlama

Posted: 30 Sep 05:58