Okay so last night I was talking to my girlfriend, and I asked her about what she heard that made her so dead set against me pleasing myself to turn her on. She was abused as a child and one of the things he did was that he would masturbate in front of her...well obviously not wanting to bring back those memories could be one of the reasons, but that didnt even bother her, like she does get bothered at times, but she has accepted that things that he did can actually be okay now. (not that he was in the right just that sexual things arent neccessarily bad when it comes to relationships and being more mature).
But she was trying to explain something to me that I didnt understand. She had been listening to the radio, and there was a doctor who explained that when something like that happens, later in life that becomes a major turn on and as life goes on it gets more and more to the point that it is the only thing that does it for them...now I think I got that right, but Im not sure cuz she started to cry when trying to explain it:(
Could anyone please give me some links or advice about the affects of sexual abuse, like on sex life, arousal etc. Does what she told me mean that she will most likely find it exhillarating to masturbate in fron of a child too? Or just that she will become obsessed with watching men masturbate? I am just really confused and totally in the dark....any help would be much appreciated.
Ducy
Posted: 24 Sep 00:50
First slow down; sexual abuse is a learned behavior meaning those statistically who are abusers have been abused. Does not mean all who are abused in return abuse other's.
At times it's exact opposite, they will go to extraordinary lengths to protect.
This is not something you can just fix, nor can she. Counseling. Call the sex abuse hot line & talk to someone. You call or her. Or both.
sera300
Posted: 24 Sep 00:51
I know its something I cannot fix, I just wish to understand it better because I am totally at a loss as to what I should or shouldn't say, do, or think when she goes through these times. I know that with sexual abuse, people who dont report it till they are older (late 30's) they tend to become abusers. But if they acknowledge it and actually have someone who believes them (when they are younger) they are less likely, if not 99% likely to be abusers. I have read about that kind of stuff. I just would like to know about how it affects things like turn-ons....like she was saying what the abuser does tends to become a turn on for the victim and that is why she is so dead set against me ever touching myself in her presence again (not that i am trying to)
Ducy
Posted: 24 Sep 00:51
Ducy, no person (woman or man) at any age should have to go through it. I know it angers you which is normal. I have seen 12 month old children on to all ages.
I would believe her mom being as you describe as pyscho. knows something about it--either directly, indirectly, or through denial.
If she does get help it will help her as she goes through life. You can only try. If she does not get help on her own, your in a difficult position.
Go outside for a walk...:)
sera300
Posted: 24 Sep 00:51
Haha....sera your words...even though nothing more then type on my screen actually soothe me lol. I have raelized alot today...and surprisingly my depression is linked to this...I made that realization and suddenly I am no longer sad...all my friends (well close friends) have been sexually abused...from being raped, being forced to have or watch someone have sex or pleasure themselves....My problem is that i care too much (if its possible) and this just tore me up inside because I cant physically do anything and no matter what I say, it doesnt really help, or takes a long LONG time
I really wish her mom had a better way of handling it if she actually knew...perhaps my girlfriend mentioned it to her when she was a child and her mom denied it (my girlfriend has blocked out all memories from just before and about 2 years after....she even has night terrors to this day...she wakes up as if someone has startled her and looks terrified at first).
Its simply amazing how much this forum has help me....especially you sera....thanks. :)
Ducy
Posted: 24 Sep 00:51
You are welcome. Perhaps her mom knows, the nightmares are the give away to a parent, I was going to ask if she had them. Her mom may be dealing with guilt that she allowed something to happen, hired the babysitter etc, and may not be able to come to terms with her own feelings. She may have blocked it mentally, and thinks her daughter has no memory of it. But this may be why she is so protective of her daughter...
Many women deal with it, as do men. It's finding what helps YOU so the person can more forward with their life. Good Luck...:)
sera300
Posted: 24 Sep 00:53
You know that does make me think that her mom does know, I mean the fact that she has a short temper, tends to drink, and usually pushes her brother off onto my girlfriend (perhaps feeling if its my girlfriend who is responsible and it happens to her son she cant feel guilty cuz she wasnt responsible) It does make a lot of sense.
I hope that I can help her find what helps. I mean I do notice that she actually has been more open since we have gone on in our relationship. And rather than shutting down not talking and not touchin me (affectionately, friendly or any other way a touch can be), she actually does talk (not necccessarily about it) and she just wants me to hold her, wants hugs and never wants to let go of my hand. I hope that this isnt a case of "her using me as her shield" but more of a "sword to help her face it head on"
Ducy
Posted: 24 Sep 00:53
Usually when the mother knows what happened, whether when it occurred or years later, there tends to be a case of denial on her part if the abuser is somebody within the family or other trusted source.
This is why I think that the phrase unconditional-love phrases 'blood is thicker than water' or 'you choose your friends, not your family' are a crock. I've seen it many times over the years where the abuser is protected/defended just by the simple fact they are family.
machine_rat
Posted: 24 Sep 00:53
Machine rat...you have to look at the family dynamics. This plays a major role in the outcomes. Often people are reluctant to admit a child knows what happened [perhaps is just making it up] and takes the "older" person as being credible. Other times the parent cannot cope with life; thus, the outcome is the child suffers.
Additionally, getting the issue out in the open that a family member "did this", further isolates the victims placing blame on their actions. It's just so complicated.
I have no use for people who do this...I have a personal stance; I would take the life if it happened in my family without remorse and seek help for the abused. I have been pushed to limits which I never wanted to see....much involved a 4 y/o little boy; he went from a head injury where the parent stated he fell down the stairs to a Homicide---the graphics were much beyond what I will ever describe here. They later submerged him in an Ice Bath to attempt to drowned him; mom, her bf, and the pregnant female landlord. I knew this day, as did many of the docs/nurses I worked with that we could kill without remorse...Thankfully the police kept the perp's out of the ER/ICU. I had to do the rape kit in the OR on him...Another was a 12 month old raped with a resulting Gonorrhea.
My point is always believe the person who states they suffered abuse; if more did so help would ensue for them. People can be very sick, and the one who suffers many times does it in silence. As much as I despise a pedophile, I will do anything if he/she presents in the ER feeling an urge requesting help--many times we have admitted them voluntarily to the psych ward, other times not voluntary, as a temporary measure to deter an eminent attack or assault. And hit them with heavy psych meds for a bit to kill their libido.
sera300
Posted: 24 Sep 00:54
DONT FORGET THE SCARS IT LEAVES EITHER....
Me personally...I just learned the true effects that this has had on my girlfriend....as I am sure they are with most....from cutting herself off...to failing to see things that non victims see...she cant seem to become close to people. (pretty much im the only close person she has) She has friends, and people know her well, but she cant seem to find that closenesss of a best friend sort of figure...She suffers for no reason at all....or at least a reason she cant see....she has night terrors, but lucky for her she cant remember....but every time she wakes up she has this terrified startled look and for a few seconds is disoriented....most of all she cant except her sexuality....she has difficulty becoming fully aroused from anything....when she does she is a total animal and after she is just kind of bleh...she feels almost guilty for it....the only time that she can truly feel close is when i hold her in my arm, the way I talk to her, the way i look. (although this isnt so bad, since she can get the warm and fuzzies from something so simple)...she just does not feel the closeness while having sex....and it kills me inside because now i feel that i am the only one enjoying it...(although she has assured me she wants it at the time)...And the last thing i want is her to do something because I want it...because to me that makes me no better than her abuser
I learned all this last night....and I still feel sad that she cant experience sexuality as I do....and that she cant make those close connections to friends....and that sometimes it can be beneficial to just let go and enjoy yourself emotionally, spiritually, physically, sexually and any other -lly you can think of.
Sera has it right. I would take the life too....no remorse....no after thought....I would do it. But I am glad that she does not remember his name, because with my computer savvy skills I could easily track him down....and you would be reading about me in the newspaper the next morning, and I dont think I could see myself doing 25 to life without seeing my girlfriend.
Ducy
Posted: 24 Sep 00:54
Ducy:
You have to put it into prospective. With help & proper therapy people do well and live a normal life...trust me. Even have very normal sex lives...much comes from understanding what happened, accepting it, coping, and moving forward. What I saw I was in the middle of a highly emotional charged issue which is really difficult. Any action you do other then helping her is damaging...At times allowing people to live with their guilt in the end gets the best of them...
sera300
Posted: 24 Sep 00:54
I do try to help her, but she refuses to get help. She knows that they should be in therapy, but she feels that she doesnt need it, because to her she doesnt see any problems. She knows that it hurts her at times, but she feels that anything other than making out isnt important so what difference does it make whether she talks or not....I want to try to get her to see that there is another "world" out ther....but she cares not to see it....the last thing i want to do is hurt her, and thats why anything that we have ever done has been her taking the lead.
Ducy
Posted: 24 Sep 00:54
If her relationships are affected by the experience and she will not make any positive moves, you may need to step away and just be her friend. At that time consider dating others. Unfortunately her matter will affect all her future relationships, perhaps failure will cause her to see she needs to make herself whole first. Sorry, I know it sounds harsh but you are not her repair kit and cannot tailor your sexual desires to meet her needs on any given day if her past leads her choices..
sera300
Posted: 24 Sep 00:55
She has actually made a few positive moves, I mean she was able to talk to tell me and her another close person in her life...I think that she just cant be open about herself with a bunch of peopel she doesnt know...she just cant let her guard down.
I understand sera, and I have been shown this option of friendship and dating others, and I honestly have considered the idea. This matter is so complicated to me, and I know that no matter what my choice is, I will probably wind up being hurt in some way or another....When I first heard her tell me that she can do without sex and fooling around, I immediately thought....how can I live without it....
She doesnt feel the same closeness that I feel during sex, and she sort of sees it as why have sex when you can feel pleasure in different ways....shes not against having sex, performing manual stimulation or anything like that, she just doesnt see a need for it every time we see each other. (we only get to see each other once a week and we usually do something near the end).
Shes right, I mean I realize its like when we first got sexual it was like I couldnt get enough...and now its just like Im so conditioned for it that my body expects it....and I miss the little pleasures. Like just kissing for hours at a time, with maybe a little bump or touch here and there....and when it comes to sex it feels....interesting, yea the sensations I feel below the belt are interesting, I mean there pretty good, but its nothing so amazing that I cant wait more than a couple weeks. But the things I like the most is feeling her body against mine, the warmth, the softness, the feeling of her hands playing with my hair...I love it. And those moments I miss cuz my body has become so expectant of an orgasm that it refuses to let me be until it occurs.
IDK maybe in ten years Ill wake up and say....I want hot sweaty sex for hours at a time everyday for the rest of my life....mabye shell start to realize that she shouldnt let this affect her sexuality, and Ill see the animalistic side (when she is able to relax her past away and just enjoy the sensuality) more often....I mean who nows....The only thing I know is that me and her are both pretty much "wired" differently and she can help herself, but she needs to WANT it.
Ducy
Posted: 24 Sep 00:55
You are very right. There are limitations with this type of relationship and how much distance you can/cannot tolerate is what you are beginning to see. The reasons for such distance you know have nothing to do with you yet it impacts your life from being "normal". Having a good sexual connection w/someone you love is something we strive for not sacrifice. I just do not want to see you hurt in the end, you will be but the degree is only limited by you.
sera300
Posted: 24 Sep 00:56
Dont worry sera, I will try not to get too hurt....
I dont feel like there is no connectino between us sexually...I mean we do get each other aroused (to a point...at least for her) and we do enjoy it, we are comfortable...I mean i rolled off the bed in our most recent engagement...we laughed, and continued...it wasnt like mood over lets go. I think that that is pretty good.
I finally understand Oedipussy when they said that there is more to pleasure than just sticking my pee pee in her wee wee...(i think thats how he put it)...I dealt with not having sex for 17 years...yes it feels good....but i have failed to reach the OMFG point...and until I hit that point, mentally Im just like oh well...i know that I will probably want to have sex fairly regularly, like maybe once a month...but if i can kiss and hold my girlfriend I am just like OH MAN! :D
I am kinda excited because my girlfriend wants to show me the pleasure that she feels on everyday things. its like she has tapped some secret part of her mind where she can feel greatness from almost nothing. I mean IDK who knows what will happen...I can only wait and see.
Ducy
Posted: 24 Sep 00:56
