OP: withdrawal getting a bad rap?

Apparently you have your "personal information" which I differ with. If you don't care about becoming pregnant and are possibly just trying to hold it off for a while (ie:married people) withdrawal is fine. On the other side it has a high failure rate b/c sperm are found in pre-ejaculatory fluid.

Due to the age of many on this site, for BC efficacy, the pill is best.

And yes, many can get pregnant without any difficulty even after 10 years of constant BCP use.

sera300

Posted: 28 Sep 22:22

And how many teenage boys have the self control to pull out?

LittleFury

Posted: 28 Sep 22:22

I notice that in your thread starter, you include a condom along with withdrawal. The numbers on this site are withdrawal alone.

The way contraceptive effectiveness is measured is the number of pregnancies per 100 women for a year. No contraceptive system (except sterilization) scores 98% on that scale. The pill and IUD are both at about 97% and to get better would require adding another system - condom, vaginal spermicide, whatever.

You say that sperm in the pre-ejaculate is not proven. Yet, every time I have pressed prostatic fluid for an exam, there has been sperm along with semen, dead white cells and bacteria. The male genito-urinary system is always full of sperm and they can leak out at any time. We frequently find sperm in urine samples of men (and sometimes women. We know what they were doing!).

The original pill had 4mg of hormone and we recommended a drug holiday every few years - take off the pill for a few months. Today all pills are below 1mg and some are as low as .25mg. We have not advised drug holidays for a long time and, in 20 plus years of practice, I never gave that dire warning you cite.

You are doing a disservice. It is easy to read your post that "withdrawal" is more effective than other systems. It takes a re-read to discover you are actually recommending condoms AND withdrawal. With the number of young folks here, many will "discover" that withdrawal is the way to go.

At best, your homework gets an incomplete.

Brandye

Posted: 28 Sep 22:22

Plus, I think some guys enjoy being able to "finish" inside the vagina instead of always having to pull out at the peak moment and finish w/ their hand. My b/f and I do both way. Yes I am on the pill, have been for 5yrs probably.

My friend thought the same way you did... she stopped taking the pill b/c she was paranoid that if a few years down the road if she wanted to have kids.. that she couldn't. Well.... she stopped taking it and less than a year later she was pregnant. They had been using condoms... but swears it was only that "one time" they did it w/ him pulling out, lol. Her baby is due any day now!

demonbuttercup

Posted: 28 Sep 22:23

Finishing inside feels WAY to good for me to trust myself to pull out every single time. It's just not reliable, I don't think that any guy has that kind of control. Besides, you sound a little biased yourself.

cjb1981

Posted: 28 Sep 22:23

Yeah, it isn't a very reliable form of preventative. That was my cousins form of birth control. The girl was on top and when he told her he was about to cum and tried to lift her off, she clenched down and 9 months later was a daddy.

So, numbers aside, you have to know for a fact that both parties agree/consent to it, and when the time come will have enough self control and no other plans of trapping the other into some form of relationship.

starrystarrygirl

Posted: 28 Sep 22:23

CJB presents an excellent case for control and reliability vs responsibility. At that moment in time when a fella is about to climax, he just cannot be trusted to make the right decision no matter how well intentioned.

Controling PE hinges on being able to keep a part of the male consciousness alert to what is going on around him and where he is along his response curve so that when he is at the trigger point of a climax, he not only recognizes the signals (sensations), he has the wherewithall and control to pull out or to stop all stimulation so that he continues to maintain control and not ejaculate. Learning when to pull out requires the same training. There is a Sticky post describing two techniques to stave off an ejaculation, I suggest reading it.

If pulling out is to have any chance of success, the following conditions must be met:
1. that he has not climaxed since urinating last
2. that if he has, he pulls out before precum reappears--
and, who among us is ready, willing, and able, to perform
that inspection before it's too late

I agree that your research rates and incomplete; moreover, your conclusion is terribly naive and selfserving.

dancingdoc2

Posted: 28 Sep 22:24

Actually...there is new research (finally) about pre-ejaculatory fluid. Semen cannot be found in it. Biologically, it would be a waste of semen, as precum has no method of moving up the vaginal canal beyond just being on the tip of the penis. Yes, residual semen can be left from a previous ejaculation. Solution?
Partner showers and washes his penis. Or you can jump in and help out.
Obviously, there are stipulations to the withdrawal method. You have to be totally trusting of him and yourself to be able to follow through with the method.
And if you didn't skim my post, you would see that I do not mean effectiveness with both withdrawal and a condom. The condom was mentioned to originally figuring out if it's the right method for you. If your partner keeps pulling out with a condom and saying "Oh, I thought it was going to happen" then you are NOT a good candidate for withdrawal. If he keeps pulling out and as he does, he is ejaculating into the condom, he is NOT a good candidate for withdrawal.
If he is able to effectively withdraw with a condom on, and you trust both yourself and him, it IS an effective method. You just need to be just as vigilant with it as you have to be with the pill. Not to mention, if you compound withdrawal with natural family planning methods such as monitoring your ovulation, you have the same effectivness as the pill. Hell, without withdrawal and with the proper, revised ovulation tracking, you have 99% effectivness. Please do not attack me - I am being truthful here. In past years, the calendar method was incorrect and also, it was universal. Just as every woman has different traits, she has a different cycle. You must monitor your cycle and cater to your cycle. That's besides the point.

I am not against medicine and I am not at all religious. I believe that birth control is harming women's bodies as a whole. It is being used without proper long term research. I personally don't want to find out 20 years from now that my childbearing years have been cut significantly or I have serious heart problems developing from birth control. I am not saying that this WILL indefinitely happen, I just don't want to take those chances with something as innately important as my vagina and reproductive organs.
And, not withdrawing when a man tells you he is about to cum is just not being responsible with a certain form of birth control.
If you can't do it, it's NOT for you.
Just like if you can't take a pill everyday at the same time, the birth control pill is not for you.
I am not saying that EVERYONE SHOULD WITHDRAW. I just found the statistics and information skewed-I do believe that the information on Natural Family Planning is skewed to cater to the pharmacuetical companies. After all, they're banking on you swallowing that pill every day.
I am not claiming EVERYONE should use natural family planning.
I just (personally) DO NOT believe in the total medicalization of women's bodies.

I was not talking about pulling out the way that high school health class makes you think of. This isn't backseat ****ing where your stomach ends up being cleaned with a dirty sock. This is a mutual decision - just as the pill should be - about how you and your partner want to prevent conception.

So thanks for attacking me, that was really awesome.
If you don't agree, present your argument intelligently. Attack the argument, not the person.
I appreciate all of you who did attack the argument rather than me. Calling me naive or self-serving right after presenting valid arguemtn points isn't exactly a way to give yourself credibility.

DoYourHomeworkLadies

Posted: 28 Sep 22:24

Actually washing wouldn't do very much. He would have to urinate b/c the sperm is in the urinary tract.

As far as practicing w/ a condom... to learn when you are about to ejaculate....it's good in theory, but from what I have read on here, the sensations of sex w/ a condom vs. w/out are very different. A guy might think he can last a certain amout of time w/ a condom....take it off and that time might be lessened...or the feeling more intense that he cums before he realizes.

As w/ any medication there are advantages and disadvanges. I know for one the pill does lessen your chances of ovarian cancer. There are lots of prescriptions that have come about w/in the last 5-10 years that we are now seeing the long term effects.
The BC pill was introduced in the 1960s. That was over 40 years ago. I think if we were going to see a devastating side effect... the pill wouldn't be on the market anymore. I am not saying that scientists aren't constantly coming up w/ new data... but that's a pretty obvious side effect that they would want to know about. They continually test it to make improvements so that it is safe for women to take.
Like Brandye mentioned...when the pill first came out, it was a HIGH dose of hormones that did cause health problems like high risk of blood clots and other types of heart disease. So then they realized they need to modify mg and so forth. Of course those risks are still there (esp if you smoke) but are not like they used to be 40 yrs ago.

You haven't actually cited any sites or links that give us information about the studies you've read.
There are 2 DRs and nurse who state something different and they have no reason to lie or mislead someone for their own gain or pharmaceutical companies gain. They are anonymous here and aren't getting paid a copay or kickback from a "pill" manufactuer to say something here. And no matter how many times Sera does a shameless plug for Walgreens... I don't "think" they are paying her either, LOL! :)

demonbuttercup

Posted: 28 Sep 22:24

This is a forum; you ask a question, or make a statement, as what happened in this case. Then, other members answer your question, or give their opinions regarding your statement. I've read the post made by the other members, they are all opinions, intelligent opinions at that. Dancing Doc, Brandye, and I'm not sure about Sera 300, but I believe she may be a doctor as well, have made intelligent arguments opposing what you say. Those of us who aren't in the medical field, have done just fine as well. And despite what you say about this not being the "backseat-f*cking" that we all heard about in sex-ed, you're wrong. You may not have noticed, but most of the members of this forum are in high school.

cjb1981

Posted: 28 Sep 22:25

Wow! I have been awat from a computer for about 36 hours and discover that there others here who really know how to kick ass.

Homework,

European doctors, such as I, are more often accused of under-medicating rather than over-medicating. But we freely use those pharmaceuticals that have been shown to have much greater benefits than risks. Consider the history of the pill: It first came into common use in 1960 in Europe and N. America. At that time, it had been studies for 13 years. Since then, forty-seven years of data have been accumulated all over the world. The changes ot the formulations used have all been changed in the direction greater safety rahter than less. The classic Harvard study that has tracked 43,000 femal nurses has included items on hormonal birth control since the the 1960s. There is likely to be no more thoroughly studies medication on the market and the conclusion of the medical community is that there would be more morbidity resulting from unintended pregnancies than from ingestion of the birth control pill.

The medical community is united in concluding that a bare penis in a vagina can, and does, commonly cause pregnancy. We do not always recommend the pill because other, older forms of birth control are more appropriate in some situations. Women who only occasinionally have sex can safely use condoms with vaginal spermicide.

If you think the information on withsrawal is skewed find the reults of pregnancies among women who use withdrawal as their exclusive means of birth control. You will be surprised.

Whether or not the secretions of Cowper's gland contain is almost irrelevant. The man manufacturs at a great rate and there is always some in the genito-urinary system. Every slide I have looked with prostatic fluid has had sperm in it. I am not aware of anyone who can control secretions from the prostate mixing with the secretions of Cowper's gland.

I know women who do use this method. Pregnancy for most of them would be changing the timing and spacing of pregnancies and the risk to them is low. The typical teen using this approach is in a much riskier situation. Condom with vaginal spermicide is indicated.

Reread sera's last. The intent or purpose of any journal determines to a great exten what studies will be published. The journal cited are looking for ways to increase fertility and using very focused studies to determine ways to enhance fertility. There are so many ways for sperm to get mixed in the pre-ejaculate that, for birth limiting purposes, knowing there are no sperm in the pure secretions of the Cowper's gland is irrelevant.

I respect your attitude and will assist my patient's with any birth control system they choose. Please use what is best for you. Please do not proselyte less experienced women with misleading statements.

Brandye

Posted: 28 Sep 22:26