OP: Dealing with Adultery

It's not just about the sex, it is primarily about why the adultery occurred in the first place. Often the reason for cheating is because of a lack of intimacy at home. Intimacy can be the lack of sex, romance, and/or especially the lack of a viable "connection". Men and women often state that they cheated because they were looking for intimacy first and foremost--not sex, not romance.

Next comes trust and the fact that one or the other partner violated the marriage vows. Whenever trust is broken, it is difficult to impossible to reestablish. If the woman was cheated on then the hurt and lack of trust harm the psyche and the emotional connection she had. This is what guys often do not understand.

If the relationship survives the infidelity, a woman will often not let the deed die. She will hound her mate for years. The harm caused will not go away unless and until her mate gets what his actions have done to the relationship, to her, and how it has affected her personally--and then can explain this understanding to her. A simple apology won't work!

He must live the rest of his life as an open book, always open to inspection.
He must expect to be making things right until..... In other words, for as long as it takes and this may very well be the rest of his life. On the flip side of the situation, if a man was cheated on, recovery may also be problematical and difficult to achieve. How each perceives the damage to their relationship is different. Men tend to be more vindictive yet also get over problems more readily. This is a generalization because each person is different gender ignored.

So, it is not just about the sex, it is about the bond between a man and a woman.

dancingdoc2

Posted: 04 Oct 23:00

IT's interesting that you say this Doc:

"He must live the rest of his life as an open book, always open to inspection.
He must expect to be making things right until..... In other words, for as long as it takes and this may very well be the rest of his life. On the flip side of the situation, if a man was cheated on, recovery may also be problematical and difficult to achieve. How each perceives the damage to their relationship is different."

It seems like to me that I always have to overcome this from day one without ever having done anything. It gets tiresome when one is innocent.

I suppose I'm understanding things a bit better.

What is this emotional bond thing you're talking about? I don't quite get that? Is it like having shared old times in the canoe fishing and all the ones that got away? Also this intimacy and connection business? What is that? It's not like a connection to work with a regular paycheque is it? Or is it like the bond with Mom (gotta love Mom! She's the greatest!)? Even though Mom's can be a pain in the ass (yes, mother I can drive however I like now and go out without my coat if I want God Dangit!), you always love mom. Dad, eh, not so much...

Is this the bond you're talking about, or something similar? I don't think I can have that bond with any woman. Women in my experience, are too threatening, too capricious and too dangerous to my well being to permit myself to be so vulnerable to such a creature. Bonding with them in the manner you speak of sounds like bonding with a ticking time bomb which I will inevitably set off sooner or later and blow myself to pieces. That's stupidity. But I digress into the pettiness of my experience.

Again, this bond thing, I do not understand. Is is akin to, in kind if not identical (yeah I get that), to the bond to one's mother?

A curious mind wants to know...

wet_suit_one

Posted: 04 Oct 23:00

In my 'not at all humble opinion' - men and women should both just get over it.

If you're going to let your marriage become a living hell over a bit of extra coitus/intimacy - then your marriage ISN'T a marriage - it's a prison - and you both have failed at the second most important relationship in you life. Congrats.

WSO - yes, you do have to bond to your mate for life. You must have a history of selecting dangerous, capricious, and threatening women for you to hold such a view of women - seeing them as a whole rather than as individuals.

EvilEvilKitten

Posted: 04 Oct 23:01

I note EEK, that you have not answered my question. Explain the bond to me if you could please. Thanks.

wet_suit_one

Posted: 04 Oct 23:02

Mothers bonding to children is a survival need. The bonding between husband and wife is more of an emotional sustenance rather than a survival need typs of bond - that there is at least one person in this world who gives a damn about you. But it also helps their children survive in that having two parents is better than just having one. Tis called "pair-bonding" by the sociologists.

EvilEvilKitten

Posted: 04 Oct 23:02

Here is something for you all. If a women is pregnant with the mans baby, and she cheats (or him) would it be a good decision to stay if you don't love that person just because the baby is involved? Personally, I don't, but financially some people might stay because they can't live on their own, no matter how unhappy they might be.

Dbondjuk

Posted: 04 Oct 23:04

never stay for any other reason than full bore love - ever. There is alaways child support and other arrangements that can be made in case of pregnancy.

EvilEvilKitten

Posted: 04 Oct 23:04

IMO...I don't think you can ever truely get over being cheated on. You can get past it to a certain degree, but it's always there. It's a cloud of doubt that has to enter into your mind everytime something doesn't feel right.

As for the marriage, I agree that you shouldn't get married unless it's for the right reasons. Especially if children are involved. They should be given every opportunity to succeed in life and I don't think having parents that tolerate each other gives them that. There are marriages of convenience that work our for some, but they are rare and both parties are willing participants. Again, I don't think that this would be a great situation with kids.

Buck Naked

Posted: 04 Oct 23:04

Buck Naked in that case the person never getting over it - doesn't really love their spouse since they're putting their own pride and security issues above all other considerations.

Think about how you appear - the perpetual victim - always ready to bash your spouse over the head - again.

WSO - correct. But you want to stop selling yourself short.

EvilEvilKitten

Posted: 04 Oct 23:04

how does the spouse come to find this "proof"

if they were digging for clues, then the pain they found is their's to bare.

now, if the cheater reveals themselves, then they are just selfish and mean.

If the cheater is careless with evidense, then they are disrespectful.

I am enlightened, and my mate is very traditional. I stay with her, and it is good for her. Yet I am spirited and MUST play, or leave. SO- I take good care to meet her needs in the bedroom, and then I LIVE MY LIFE.

BUT-- if she goes diggin thru my phone, or breaks into my e-mails.... THEN SHE CAN FEEL THE PAIN SHE FINDS.

just my .02

live, live well, and let live.

irontantra

Posted: 04 Oct 23:05

EEK, I seriously doubt I can love. I have such a poor view of relationships as a rule (given divorce rates, the ME culture (I'm a prime example I know :D), my knowledge of my own failings etc., etc., etc....) that I don't think I can marry until I'm about 90. By that time, I should die before I divorce so I can die married.

Love... Who believes in love anymore?

Also, given the fact that no one is perfect, most people are reasonably selfish and the standards of fidelity that some folks have are beyond any reasonable scale (women don't really get how men work it seems, or they know all too well and completely overreact). It's just a situation where you're set up to fail.

Plus there's the fact (a fact in my view) that marriage has nothing to do with love as it is historically constructed. It's about property, tradition, religion, duty, domestic economy but not "love" as that term is understood today. Women don't need men anymore, and men don't need women as much (though children still need their parents), so the glue that used to keep people married (NEED not WANT ) isn't really there anymore. It's a matter of iron will to stay married because why not just walk away because the romance isn't there anymore, he got fat and bald, she lost her job, he has annoying habits, the neighbour looks better or whatever other number of stupid reasons people get divorced these days (like she went out for drinks with a co worker).

Divorce used to be illegal. Not a bad idea on the whole in my view from a policy perspective. What we have now, for an individual, is a mess.

I recall once hearing the advice that Italian mothers gave their daughters at their marriage, "he will cheat, but is he a good man?" Sound advice, but utterly nonsensical nowadays. Now, if your husband looks at the hot young thing on the street, the wife's on the phone with the divorce lawyer. Completely unreasonable.

Anyways, I'm sure I'm going to spark a slugging match, so bring it and let's go!

My position: Marriage is broken and no longer workable for a reasonable person. Evidence, 50% divorce rate. At those break up rates, why bother with marriage?

wet_suit_one

Posted: 04 Oct 23:05

Actually I disagree WSO - since neither gender needs the other for survival/gain/fun - the ONLY reason to wed & stay married is for love.
Of course, loving your spouse does not preclude a person from enjoying sex with another person. The point is to separate the physical from the emotional.

EvilEvilKitten

Posted: 04 Oct 23:06

IMHO most of this thread has very good advice. EEK, you certainly have worked long and hard to develop yourself and your relationship with your husband. I very much commend you for all your hard work.

The the big sticking point for me is basically the quote above. To me, whether it be sex with others outside the marriage, whether to bring a child(ren) into the relationship, how we plan to retire, or any number of things that both my wife and I feel are issues, those items should be agreed upon or at least compromised upon.

At least where I live, marriage is between two individuals, and the state. The basic definition of how that agreement would be dissolved has been decided through the legal system. But how that agreement between us will be implemented will be decided through discussions with my wife. We have come up with a frame work we can both live with. But whether she lied to me about a night out with her best friend which was really a night out at a swingers club to live out a multipartner fantasy or she drained our retirement fund playing video poker, my upset would not be about the sex, or the money. My upset would be about her breaking the bond of trust we have in our marriage.

Our marriage continues to be in constant flux, just as we change and grow as people. We spend a great deal of time discussing how we think and what we feel. We don't always agree. Sometimes we have to "agree to disagree", but I respect her opinions. And I feel she has respected mine.

In my first marriage, I cheated. But differing in the scenario described earlier, I expressed that my needs were lacking. She tried to ignore my dissatisfaction. I was blunt about if my needs wouldn't be addressed, I would find someone to "take up the slack". I started going out, out of frustration with not feeling like I'd been heard. One Saturday night, she stated "If you don't come home at a reasonable time, then don't come home at all." That night I happened into a girlfriend of an Ex of mine. We had some mutual attraction and she knew I was married. She said that she'd like to "hook up". I made it a point to get a hotel room and not come home until very late morning.

That finally made my first wife wake up. She did forgive me and we ended up in counseling. Of course, our relationship ended a year or so later. She could give me the number of times of intercourse per week I asked for, but some of those times, she just slapped on some lube, and counted ceiling tiles. What I wanted was for her to be there and present. She is a nice person and our marriage wasn't terrible. But I wasn't happy. I couldn't make sex less important for her and she couldn't make sex more important for me. I felt that I should go find a partner that was more interested in a physical relationship and she could find out that was less interested. The first 4-5 years of our relationship was great. After we got married, a year or two later, things tapered off.

After we divorced, I went back to counseling. IMHO there is never just one or the other's fault. I knew that I had a part in choosing the partner that I did and reacting to that partner in the manner that I did. I felt it would be in my best interest to figure out what about me didn't work and change those things. If you follow the same road map, you end up in the same place. I've heard so many say "this last one is just like my Ex". Why is that? I have found in my own life that I attract unto me that which I need, not necessarily what I want. So if I can change what I "need" about myself into what I "want", I felt I'd be a happier person. So I searched out a good counselor who could ask me the questions I couldn't seem to see to ask myself.

Nine months later I figured out that the issue wasn't really the sex so much as control. I wanted her to react in a certain way. She wanted me to react in a different way. And that all seemed to play out in the bedroom. Of course by that time she was living with someone else and planning to move out of state. All of that has been a great catalyst to make me look at who I am, who I want to be, and what I can change about myself to become a better person.

To me whether it be sex with others (without prior approval), significant sums of money going into non agreed items, or going beyond whatever my partner and I have agreed to within our relationship, violating her trust is not right. If I wish to make changes to my agreement with my wife, I need to discuss the proposed changes with her so I don't violate her trust. I expect the same from her. YMMV.

scottinthegrove

Posted: 04 Oct 23:07

EEK I love what you say, even though I have never been married. Really like the part where you suggested becoming friends with the new woman. hahaha. Man, I got a great story about that. I even got her to put me in her will for $10,000 and nearly got a trip to Cuba! Stupid passport. Not to mention she took me shopping at her expense, loaded me up with booze, bought my lunch for me every two days, got me a super expensive Christmas tree, and treated me to the spa on my birthday. First time I ever got to do that. She gave me an Ipod, a cellphone (plan paid for), jewelery, etc. Even paid for my driving lessons. And she gave me endless laughs. My fave is when she asked me if I was a virgin. It was mean, but I couldn't help it. I burst out laughing and my boyfriend was sending me these evil glares which just made it worse. She didn't figure it out for months.

It was really my fault he went out with her afterall. I figured I might as well have fun. I kinda feel bad now for taking advantage of her, but hey... She backstabbed me soon as she had a chance. So oh well. Some of the things we did I'd never take back.

FadedLove

Posted: 04 Oct 23:07

Ok here's my first post and boy did I pick one to jump in on. So far I have seen where some think having sex with someone other than your spouse is no big deal. I've seen post saying we don't stay together for love but for property gains instead.
I have been married for 25 years and I can say I love my wife more today than I did last year. Every year my love for her grows stronger. We have never really had that great of a sex life, even though I wish we did, but that has never effected my love for her. I didn't marry my wife for the sex but instead for the companionship, friendship, support, the joy of knowing I have someone who will be there for me when I really need them. This sounds like a best friend and yes she is my best friend. We are best friends who tust each other with our deepest darkest secrets that we would never tell anyone else. At the same time we both feel warmth and security form the other. We know that when the world has us down the she will be there to help pick us up and stay by our side to see us through whatever the situation is. When you truely are in love with your spouse you know it's you two against the world and your better half will fight by your side to the end. Being married and in love is knowing that if you have had a bad day your spouse will let you rant and rave and never ignore you. It's knowing that when you make a mistake you can confess to it and they will forgive you and still love you unconditionally.
Someone asked why commiting aultry is such a big deal. Well a marriage is based on trust. I you do not trust your spouse or they do not trust you then you will never have that special bond all married couples should have. When you place that much trust in a person and they commit adultry with another person the trust is broken, but not destroyed if you truely love your spouse. Haveing a spouse cheat is painfull and it leaves deep wounds but as with any wound it can heal, the process isn't easy but it can be done. But to heal both people need to be open and honest. The one that cheated needs to confess they cheated, try to explain what drove them to do it and they need to decide if they are really with the right person. They also need to be willing to take what thier spouse has to say. The other needs to explain how much it hurt them and how the trust has been broken. The one cheated on may need to talk about it on and off for months to help the healing. They may need to cry or be angry or most likely both and the othe needs to put up with it and ask forgiveness. But at the same time the cheated on needs to be willing to give forgiveness. If the couple is truely in love there should be able to forgive the one they love.
Cheating hurts the trust but it also hurts self respect and ego. Ego is so easily hurt and so hard to repair. The one cheated on starts to wonder whats wrong with them to cause the person they love to turn to someone else. Does their partner really love them, are they that bad in bed? a lot of times it has nothing to do with either of these things but instead a lack of intamacy and communication. Sex between a married couple is something very special that they share and nobody else can experiance it. It's like a holly temple and when another man or woman steps in it is soiled.
i don't know if any of this makes any sence but it's hard to explain why sex is so protected between a married couple that truely love each other. I guess part of it is because when you take your wedding vows you promise to remain loyal to that person and when you break that it shows disrespect and dishonor to the other, something a marriage needs to survive especially in today world.
Ok I'm off my soap box now, sorry for all the rambling on.

EastTexasDude

Posted: 04 Oct 23:08

Just wanted to share this with you:

Research setting
I once read about several psychological research in which they posed the hypothetical situation of adultery and the participants needed to say what they'd say to their partner. (the famous, whatever-"pops"-in-your-mind-questions) Some in which the "victim" wasn't posed a hypothetical question, but it was staged and seemed real (effective research... yet: cruel off course). And some research also applied EEG; meassuring brainactivity.

Conclusion
All research concluded (thoroughly) the same:

Whenever a woman tells her man about a secret other party, his first question is: did you sleep with him?
Whenever a man tells his woman about a secret other party, her first question is: do you love her?
The second question was mostly the other way around.

Explaining the results
The psychologists assumed that the first question represent the difference between man and woman, which originates in reproduction. As men by nature should be concerned about passing their genes, which makes it so important with whom "his" female mates. While women by nature should be concerned about the bringing up and "caring" while being protected, no matter of whom the offspring is. The first question springs from the most "primal" part of the brain and is also referred to as "unconscious".

The second question is a little more difficult to predict. Psychologist believe this springs from deep (cultural) embedded values/believes, mixed with changing to the perspective of the partner, which could give another meaning to the situation. FE: He loves me, but if he slept with her that signifies (in our culture) that he doesn't love me anymore... She didn't sleep with him, but if she'd love him, she won't stay (iow: sleep) with me anymore (cause love&sex are embedded in cultural values)... The reason for this type of reaction is "subconscious"; you don't actually "think" about it, you simply apply. Only by carefully scrutinizing you'll see why.

After this first reaction, it all becomes blurry, as this is where the mind truly sets in; conscious thinking. The first reaction may not even be "popped" into speaking, as people have learned to control before speaking. The shifting of perspective is however measurable by EEG. Popping from the more primal ego-centered, towards the more empathetic, ending in the "thinking" part of the brains. (Sorry, couldn't find the actual article, else I would have provided you with the exact terms) Which in fact is also: logical, for surviving "I" becomes first :)

Back to reality...
This is a very (over)generalized picture of how psychologically (wo)men react to adultery, which off course does not do right to the complexity of reality. But it perhaps explains the difference between different "sorts" of adultery and how people tend to react to it, without there being a really thought-through-explanation for it. Cause even though this is about brainactivity, in human terms it's all just because it "feels" this way.

RedRoses

Posted: 04 Oct 23:09