OP: disappointed with the men I'm meeting...

Hi everyone!
Since I know you're all craving for something to sink your teeth in at this near to death forum and I'd like to hear a few opinions :)

You can't say I've been dating, but I've been having sex with various men. Now, I can give a positive spin on these experiences. When I first took the unprecedented step of sleeping with someone, after my longterm relationship had been crashing and dieing for a few years and had ended some time before, there was a sense of great excitement, I felt highly energetic and I can't deny I actually felt good about myself. I also think I've actually made these men happy. Varying from fun between friends, to introducing a rather inexperienced man into the world of sex, to comforting an older man who had felt his life had broken down beyond repair at the time.

But the overall feeling is a growing sadness. Feeling hollow. When I'm really honest to myself; it's not fun. And the feeling of having sex that I once absolutely and undoubtedly adored, seems to be a fading memory. These men do not give me pleasure. Whereas I used to be multi-orgasmic effortlessly and squirted with ease. And though I can't seem to achieve that while masturbating, I'm also surprisingly quick about pleasing myself.

It's worse than not fun... Being torn, bruised and disregarded, isn't what I had in mind. It is pretty frustrating. Being asked after a man has crashed on me "did you cum?"- "no"- "well then you have your toys to help yourself later". Or a man jumping my bones and completely ignoring me throughout cause he's only busy with himself; while he's putting on his clothes I'm getting the urge to just tell him my "hourly rate", because when he treats me so cheap, I should at least make something out of it. Naturally I just lay there silent and bewildered. I'm not expecting men to suddenly get it right at first try. But I am expecting them to try. It seems like they don't even have that on their minds... And don't feel bad about it when I didn't have an orgasm, certainly not in the mood to give it another shot. Honestly; if many men are like that, I totally get why so many women claim they rarely orgasm or even: simply don't ever, and why they're really not that fond of sex. It may even be a perpetuating cycle; men coming with the expectation of women not really liking sex or having orgasms in the first place...

The crazy thing is; they're not "bad" men, It's like they flip a switch when it comes to sex... Maybe even worse because they think it will be just this once. Which is interesting, cause I tend to feel like giving them a special treat and ask them very explicitly what they like and want and pay close attention to them, because I believe every moment should be cherished. Perhaps they put themselves on human lock-down to block out any possible emotion? I actually feel they do. Even when I truly felt they were open before and there was a heart-to-heart-connection, that's gone once sex starts. I honestly don't understand that myself. They also seem to be desperately afraid I might fall in love with them, which I think is more about their own fear of emotions than it is about me.

It may be the same reason as to why men usually can't imagine themselves having sex with me, once they've gotten to know me. Men usually see me as a highly spirited, insightful, intelligent young woman, but also innocent and vulnerable in some ways. So they feel that they would be disrespecting me, smudging me, some undefinable dark negative cloudy feeling of doing me wrong. One of the few men I've slept with and still talk to, has admitted he was actually feeling very guilty afterwards.

Interestingly: I hadn't expected sex to be much of a problem. I thought that even though sex is an interaction between people, my orgasms are mostly about me and since I know what I like, it shouldn't be too difficult... I had expected my primary difficulty would be to find men. Because of the above. And since I don't possess a feeling of sexual attraction to strangers. I've never had a crush, fallen in lust or fallen in love with someone. Even with my previous partner it's debatable whether there was such a phase or that I just jumped from loving him as a friend to loving him as a partner, without that spell of infatuation in between. Either way, I hear you questioning; how does she find men to sleep with if she's not attracted to them? I've found a rather easy work-around for that. I'm not particularly physically attractive or beautiful, but it's easy to pick up on the "vibe" when they do find me attractive. Also: I find it easy and fun to talk to people and am not shy around men. Basically all they have to do is talk to me, without hitting on me or fishing (anyone who asks me if I have a bf within the first 5-10 minutes won't be going home with me). Then show me some act of (selfless) kindness that shows their character. If my gut-feeling about him is right, then he'll be invited for coffee. Honestly; if more men had actually shown me kindness... ;P

I know I may be contributing to this myself somehow:
First; I had actually come to concluding that something must have physically changed and that my ability to orgasm had diminished. Until my former partner showed me a few weeks ago it was not. All he had to do was stroke my back (he hadn't helped me to orgasm in 3 years). Physically; nothing has changed, so skip that.
Second; I used to have this amazing partner with who sex has been stargazingly beautiful and earth-shatteringly pleasurable. He was my first partner, so sex has always been this good to me (well, at least everything I did voluntarily). So many men are likely to fall many miles short of what sex is to me. Still; I don't think I'm very demanding. I'm very willing to teach him. I'm a very patient person by nature. The fact is; I still have to meet the guy that seriously tries!
Third; I do think that this way of picking up on men, could be still causing me trouble... But I wouldn't know how to find another clever work-around. Do you?

Just for the record; I'm primarily looking for people to connect with: to make friends. Secondarily; I'm looking for sex. Tertiary; I'm looking for someone in a romantic and sustainable way. For any possible relationship to potentially make it to that level, there is one vital question; do you want to have kids? Which is something that I'm not in a hurry to ask and only when the subject happens to go there. I'm not out there dating my head off. And I'm not expecting sex to magically turn whatever relationship I had with someone before into something more.

Advice? Opinions? Questions? :)


Posted: 08 Oct 22:45


You have fallen in with 'unskilled labor' - those men who either through being incompetent or uncaring are abysmal at sex. I am very sorry to hear it. The only way out of this is to ask them for their qualifications and references. In what manner/mode you ask depends upon you and how you feel at the time but you can make it a joke, a challenge or just a matter of fact information gathering.

Be more active and personal when having sex. This makes a man take notice of you as you. Never be silent and bewildered. SPEAK.


Posted: 08 Oct 22:45

But uhm... I'm just trying to picture myself doing this: how am I going to ask their qualifications or references while getting an honest answer? I mean; wouldn't any man with the potential prospect of having sex say they rock the world? ;P And even if he gave me a reference, I wouldn't be sure what to do with that (pick up phone; "hi, can I ask you about what the pro's and con's about having sex with X are?" ;)) Could you give me an example just so I can get my mind started on how to work with this?

Thinking about it, I don't think I've ever even mentioned sex during a conversation... I don't think it's because I'm shy. I guess it's because I need to always keep my escape plan, until I'm sure and don't want to be accused of leading someone on. This may sound very lame, but I'm usually not entirely sure I want to actually have sex with this particular person, until I hear myself whispering it to him. If I were an animal I would have likely been roaring from deep inside my belly at that moment ;) Perhaps I always have to overcome some sort of rational barrier...

Yes, I agree I should be able to speak up more. Though we should take into account I've come a very long way already :) But particularly while I'm already vulnerable and open (like I am during sex) and then someone hurts me (emotionally or physically) I just tend to freeze up. Which I'm told is a perfectly natural variety to the fight-flight response, nonetheless not very practical. I was so proud when for the first time while a man hurt me, I was able to tell him "stop" and he paused. The downside was that he didn't wait for my answer if I was ok again and just buried his face next to me in the pillow while he went on. And with sheer frustration I found myself unable to move or find my voice again and had my mind screaming: just look up, just look at me, I'm not ok! If telepathy only had minimalistic implications, the message would have surely struck his brain inches from mine ;)

Anyway; I'm working on that. If I don't try, then I won't learn and most certainly won't change that response.


Posted: 08 Oct 22:45

"did you cum?"- "no"- "well then you have your toys to help yourself later"
Somehow I can't really imagine anyone good and caring saying that.

Also what you said about men seeing you as a holy nun kind of implies that the only ones who have a chance with you are mostly oblivious who don't care about you as much as they should which is sad.

You don't have to have a crush on them but I would think you could at least sleep with someone you find attractive otherwise its not as exciting? (hence you probably thought your ability to orgasm diminished even though sex is mostly in the brain so you probably need to find someone that does it to you enough so you forget about most self-conscious thought)

My Advice is stop giving pity sex, men want you to want them just as you want men to want you(that want should not be confusing) and if you don't really want you both just end up disappointed and misunderstood.
Find out what guys you really find attractive, look on dating sites maybe.

Male Apprentice

Posted: 08 Oct 22:46

It's also pretty confusing to me. Within their other social behavior, they are very nice, real gentlemen even. On the other hand; social skill can be learned and perhaps they've never taken time or interest to learn about sex. Possibly; thinking that it shouldn't be necessary (it should come naturally). I know what he said sounds bad. Apparently he was aware a female orgasm is possible and he was also aware toys could be helpful. So my logical reasoning, had I been in his shoes, would have been: "would you like to bring out your toys, so we can play with those for a while?" I think his assumption was his job was done now, since the common believe is sex is over when the man comes. Besides; he doesn't need to give a woman an orgasm, because we're told daily: it's not necessary to women to have an orgasm to enjoy sex. Society is really sated with such ideas that focus on the male perspective. If only because the number of times you've had sex is counted by male orgasms. And we call it penetration, instead of "envelopment" or something alike from female perspective. Anyways, that's what I'm trying to say when I point out they're not "bad men".

As for "finding guys you really find attractive"; I've accepted by now I simply don't feel sexually attracted to people (male or female, for that matter, I just tend to socialize easier with guys). My lack of feeling sexually attracted, doesn't mean I don't like people. It also doesn't mean I don't like sex. It doesn't mean I don't like relationships. It just complicates finding people to have sex with. I feel lucky that at least my "radar" and gut-feelings appear to be fully operational, so that I can a) protect myself from predators and b) seek out potential lovers. I only discovered I could do that in the past months. It makes me feel like some sort of terminator constantly screening the other person once I've picked up on that sexual vibe, lol!

I don't exclude the possibility that it happens one day. But I'm not going to wait for it till it does. For a long time I've felt like there was something broken about me. Something beyond repair that had doomed me. I had pictured my future of finding someone to love and he'd love me, I'd give him sex, he'd give me babies in return and beyond that I wouldn't care one bit about how he'd meet his needs with whoever he wanted. Not because I was raised to believe this, I just couldn't feel the slightest sexual desire. I felt more longing for the day I'd push a baby out of my vagina than letting a penis in. Until my former partner fell in love with me and I melted. And I discovered I in fact am very physical, highly responsive to touch and that I actually love sex from the deepest of my core. When my relationship crashed, I feared that I'd reverse to my former self and that my sex-life from that point on would just be over and . That didn't happen. I continue to feel like a vibrantly sexual being. Which is also why I don't identify as asexual (some have asked me that). My former partner is still the only person I feel highly sexually attracted to. To the other men I've already slept with, there's a slight stirring. Others; basically all people are exactly the same to me when it comes to their sexually attractiveness, within reason of physical attractiveness. You could say that's sad. You could also say; I have an entire ocean of fish to chose from ;P Jokes aside, if you have ideas on how I could pick my lovers better, do share!

O, and yes; that is correct: apart from one of them who I considered a friend before we slept together (who felt guilty and only dared talk to me over the phone for a few months after we had sex), they do not know me particularly well. I don't think it's a "holy nun" perspective, men just tend to become protective around me. I guess you could say they tend to see me as their intellectual equal or their little sister or an interesting combination of the two! Even my relationship with my former partner has turned into that (with still his sexual attraction towards me as well, which he's chosen not to act upon, because it "feels wrong"... you may guess why that is!) There must be something about me that brings that out in men. I actually fight to be regarded as equal. And I don't mind it they become protective, as long as it doesn't get in my way. They do definitely regard me as female. It would just be nice to be regarded as a sexual being too... Perhaps I'm simply too comfortable around them and don't particularly ooze "sex".


Posted: 08 Oct 22:46

It is the inner self that really matters, what you see when people run out of walls to hide behind or drop them entirely when emotions run high, then when you strip away the layers of social norms and conditioning you can see them for how they really are..maybe good, maybe not. After all some people can act very nice when they want to.

What bothered me about it is that it sounds like he immediately removed himself from the situation and told you to go play with yourself, could have at least offered to eat you or play with you further in the 1-10m it would take to get hard again. Its true that some women probably prefer to be left to their own but does it really hurt to ask if he already asked you if you came?

So you are sexually attracted to someone, your former partner, it would be incorrect to say you don't get sexually attracted then what is it about him that attracts you? are you over him? really these questions are probably something to ask yourself instead of assuming there is something inherently wrong.

I don't know how you look or act so its hard for me to speculate as to why the men you meet feel that way? are you really young ? or really old?

Male Apprentice

Posted: 08 Oct 22:46

And those thoughts can be a bit confusing. So yes, I know you (or anyone on this forum ;)) could not really speculate on why men respond to me the way they do ;) Also; I totally agree with you it's the inner self that matters. Honestly; I think that's what shines through! Inner beauty is what makes us all glow :) I just am not so sure that while being as naked as we are during sex, people are actually being "naked"... or simply playing another part for "show". O, which I didn't mention before; I don't usually feel self-conscious during sex. Even though it appears to be the major concern of women, I'm quite happy with my body, even while it's covered in stretchmarks and my stomach isn't flat and I'm suffering from bad health that leaves me with various physical complaints that sometimes makes me feel sad and much older than I am... Funny you should ask my age; I seem to really confuse people over how old I am in real life, even worse on the internet. If I had a nickel for every time... ;) But: I'm in my late twenties. So not really young or really old, I'd say ;P Why did you ask? If you were trying to find out the age of the men I sleep with, that has little reference to mine ;)

I guess the sexual attraction I feel for my former partner is something that has grown over time with the way that he touched me and loved me. No-one had ever loved or touched me the way he did. Has not since. Just a kiss and stroking my back is enough to make me come (still is). If he wants to, he can make me have so many orgasms till I'm basically tripping. I had my first orgasm while he was underneath me. I've learned to masturbate with him beside me, helping me along. He's not particularly physically remarkable, but to me he's the most sexually desirable man in the world. He's still a significant part of my life; we love eachother deeply and he's my best friend (perhaps that word doesn't really cover the intensity of our friendship, but there doesn't appear to be a good word to it). The thing I'm "over" is that we will never have a future together, because our wishes differ too much. Having a serious relationship in the sense of the word that you plan on having a life together, is not part of his life's plan. Any other option would still be open from my perspective. I'm not very traditional on that aspect. Although I've been monogamous with him for years, I don't believe humans are monogamous. And one of the things that drove this relationship insane, was when he stopped having sex with me and kept me waiting for weeks, months, years, until I felt it was time to make a point that I was not his property and decided to end our sexual exclusivity. It took another few months to end the relationship and it took me a year to act upon my sexual freedom, even though I was sexually starved at that point, for the obvious reason that I didn't have a clue on who to have sex with or on what grounds to base that decision. Until I just happened to find a friend willing to have sex with me and then found out my workaround. And here I am now... My most pleasurable sexual experience in the past 3 years being my former partner kissing me and stroking my back to give me a row of orgasms. Bit pathetic isn't it?


Posted: 08 Oct 22:46

People who have sex may feel guilt because they:
1.Sleep with someone who may be the age of their siblings
2.Cheat on someone
3.Deceive or Coerce.
4.Take advantage of someone vulnerable.

I don't think your story is pathetic because it bears similarity to one I have heard before, take the lesson from this to realize that there are no real workarounds to attraction and also learn to speak and communicate with your lovers(hopefully choose ones who enjoy pleasing you sexually).

Male Apprentice

Posted: 08 Oct 22:47

I don't know if you intended to, but "lesson" sounds a bit condescending. Also: it makes me feel like you've not really been listening. I've tried to explain how I don't feel sexually attraction. And the closest thing to what I expect many people feel, incl yourself I take it?, involves a lot of other emotions. I appreciate you're trying to help, but it's as if you've just answered "do Y" after someone asked “how do I do X when I can't do Y”.

As far as feeling guilt (btw: I think most couples are are actually of their sibling age...) As I've explained; it's that they feel as if they took or would be taking advantage of me (even though I don't think they do). Which may be inspired by the fact I'm ill. And perhaps exagerated because they are older than I am in most cases. Honestly; I'd wish they feel guilty about things that actually matter! Like taking the 'fun' out of having fun. Or even replacing it with pain.

Btw; I do communicate. I can see how you may have misunderstood that. I just usually can't speak up or even move a muscle after I feel hurt or terribly confused/emotional. It's a defense mechanism, like animals playing dead. My former partner has always been very aware of that reaction. Then again; he's above average perceptive of bodylanguage and knew before I told him about my past that there was a more profound emotion than just being a nervous virgin. I don't think I really blame other men for being unable to see that. it is rather subtle; the response is essentially about no response. In the other hand, because they are inside me, it's quite obvious I tense up. So it would certainly help if they'd look at me more often, instead of closing themselves off during sex. It would certainly help if they feel me tensing up, they wouldn't continue thrusting till I tear and end up with internal bruises and scare my woried physician again. I've fixed that problem by being on top, only switching to other positions when I feel it's safe. So at least I'm able to prevent myself from getting injured now. Now all I have to do is get things 'fun' again.

Yes I hope so too. I'm hoping EEK can provide me with some more practical advice :)


Posted: 08 Oct 22:47

OK, I had a sexual history when I first met my late fiancé but he rocked my world at first glance. We met at a reception for a post-doc program at a Montreal hospital. Before leaving the hospital that night I had written my first Canadian prescription (birth control for me) had it filled and had taken the first dose. His death two years later was devastating and I was essentially asexual for more than a year. An accidental encounter with a man re-awakened my sexuality. I dreaded the thought of being back in the dating game with jerks as you describe. I had had that at university. I took solace in love with another bi-sexual woman whilst testing the waters of more mature males. I learned a bit along the way.
The first is the worst. Your first sexual encounter with a new partner is more reconnaissance than it is sex. If he passes, subsequent encounters will generally improve. If he does not pass, waste no more time but take EEK’s advice.
There is a movement called “ladies first.” Do not bother with all the crap written on it because the authors, mostly male, make it more complicated than it really is. It is simply, the woman gets her orgasm first. With younger men still eager for multiples, you can relieve him by hand or somehow to slow him down and have better staying time. Usually about the time my bra comes off, I tell him that I really enjoy taking a penis into me right after having an orgasm. If he does not take that rather broad hint, he is not worth my effort. If he chooses to negotiate, it will be as he is pulling up his pants. As the relationship develops, he will get other suggestions such as what sort of stimulation for my first orgasm sets me up for additional response. It is none of his business how I learned this stuff; I do not want to know his sexual history and he will not hear mine. Beyond the age of about twenty it can be assumed a new partner has a history. Beyond that it is not worth discussing. He can discover for himself that my right nipple is wired directly to my clitoris. If he does not make that discovery, ………
There are certain things a woman can (should) dictate: contraception and the man’s role is to comply. Time of entry because we know when we want to take him in. How vigourous the pumping and if we express discomfort, he better make the change we suggest. After developing a relationship, he will know the rules.
My (male) accountant tells me frequently (he considers it high humour) that “The problem with Britain is that women control 53% of the wealth and 100% of the pussy.” Crude but very true. You have great negotiating power and, especially in the early days of a relationship


Posted: 08 Oct 22:47

I am not sure that this Nonresponsiveness IS you, RR. I think it is what you have been taught to be/permitted yourself to become. Not being in the best of health might be a partial cause but, speaking as one who is ancient, gnarled and gravely debilitated myself, that's what you have to work with...right now. Expect changes to occur because they will.

But you've never been one to take pleasure lightly. It sems that you want to enjoy the cake while also keeping it - have it sitting there on the shelf looking lovely or something. You cannot make time stand still and pleasure is a fleeting thing especially when it comes to sex. Unfortunately, it is when sex is treated lightly that it is best. Even when at its most primeval without the hint of laughter lurking in the background sex becomes a fraught affair.

Is there no mischief in you, my dear? Even small kittens can wink, can you?

(By the way: it is that 'lurking mischief' that will bring the Skilled Labor to you since all others will run away.)


Posted: 08 Oct 22:47

I'm very sure the nonresponsiveness is something I've learned at a young age. There are many indications that by nature, I'm likely very assertive, maybe a bit aggressive even. Which is not a character trade usually appreciated in children, particularly little girls. I'm working on breaking through those thick layers that are plastered on me. Because I've never learned or been taught to regulate such feelings, only how to keep it bottled up, it's quite an anxious process to slowly let go of that iron control. It seems quite logical why in a situation where I'm enraged, which is how I feel when someone is hurting me, the only response now seems to be complete lock-down. As if unleashing that anger would be more dangerous. I wouldn't be surprised if my high tolerance for pain is a direct result of it. You can't keep feeling hurt by bottled up anger, so the levels need to be adjusted. And if I don't feel hurt, I won't feel the need to stand up for myself or get angry, so I can continue to function on routine. Quite a perpetuating cycle. I'm tearing at it as we speak :)

Mischief? As in being naughty, playful and/or flirtatious, you mean? Well, yes; I am :) Do you think I'm some stiff upper lip type of person? Not at all! Sure, I can be quite serious when I need to. And I can be uneasy when in unknown company; I tend to make myself look smaller when I'm feeling uncertain. I usually overcome that by starting to chat with someone. Don't we all have those moments? Once I get comfortable, I'm singing, smiling, flirting and often called a little ray of sunshine :)

What do you mean by the cake comparison?

I can't deny it's hard to go with a physical flow, when I need to keep my mind engaged for my own protection at all times. It's much easier when with a steady partner, who you know has your best interests in mind. I'm shocked at how easy men seem to be at losing their heads in favor of their own pleasure and become irresponsible... Fe: if I hadn't been so insistent on using condoms, I would have been screwed over each and every time!

Me being on top takes care of a lot of problems. But they seem disappointed when I do that, as if I'm taking away their masculinity of the moment... If I put myself in his perspective, I can sorta understand; he's looking forward to sticking it to me in whatever position he is on top of me and he knows I'm absolutely ready for it, but then I push him off, make him put a condom on and also flip him over and reverse roles. I essentially break up the moment we were in in two different ways. Maybe I should be more dominant to begin with?


Posted: 08 Oct 22:47

Little girls are taught to control their emotions - tis true. The one thing girls and women are mainly taught is to not express anger. Never be angry. But let's consider anger for a moment. Anger is a weapon and its expression ranges from the icy coldness of totally ignoring someone's existence (the cut direct) to the full-blown red-hot rage that demands the immediate annihilation of an adversary/threat. Anger is quite a USEFUL emotion when properly applied. Anger makes people sit up and take notice. It draws attention to itself. The trick is to use anger wisely - one does not use a howitzer to swat flies. One must only use just enough anger to get the job done - never more. Most often a quick "DON'T EVER SAY/DO THAT AGAIN!" is sufficient. Such control is best if practiced. So when you're feeling hurt - say so. "DAMMIT, THAT HURT!" would work. Even "STOP THAT, IT HURTS!" is useful. Never bottle nger up - just channel it where and how it will do the most good.

My cake example means that pleasure is to be enjoyed for its own sake at that moment. Pleasure is good both at that moment and remembered later (if perhaps ruefully in a laughing 'what was I thinking' way). Finding it hard to go with the physical flow is to deny yourself pleasure which lays waste to all that surrounds it. Your denial of your own pleasure also robs him of some of his if he is worthy of bedding at all. BTW, you being on to means less work for him as well as less control but it is good for a man to experience this - widens his horizons, don't you know. The same with you being more dominant - go ahead it you feel like it. Most men are perfectly willing to whatever the lady demands when it comes to sex. A joyous, actively participating, wickedly wonderful lover is a delight - become one.


Posted: 08 Oct 22:48

Here's the deal.

I'm trying to get back in the dating pool. I have avoided this site as of late, just due to ill feelings I have had about my first relationship being a total failure. I'm still friends with the ex, but there were things mentioned and while in the end this should actually leave all things to chance, my ex has decided that he would much rather move on. At this point, I'm not going to hold him back, there's nothing bad I can say about him...things just didn't work period.

Unfortunately, my reluctance about letting him go is also a lot deeper than just keeping him around as an friend...he is my only MALE friend I currently have.

Two weeks ago, I had such a bad nervous breakdown since he finally decided that it would hurt him for us to continue being intimate. He says he wants a healthy relationship and came to the conclusion that ours just wasn't. There are other things that were said, none meant to be offensive or nasty or anything like that, but I took it as that I'm basically losing a male friend in my life.

I've always craved certain male attention (usually from those I consider to be good looking and not creepy), but ever since graduating from high school (co-ed), graduating from college (all girls and a huge mistake on my end overall) and to be honest, I found it easier to talk to men rather than with women due to the backstabbing nature of woman. I'm sorry, I did the all girls college and by the time I graduated, even though I did gain some friends, I ended up feeling rather lonely.

It's been a year since I graduated and of course being the one who graduated during a s#!tty economy (I know I shouldn't curse, but I feel like venting) I have been doing odd jobs, I haven't found anything secure.

So I decided to go back to grad school because I wanted to find out what I could do with my life...that and I just can't stay home or be by myself for too long. Being alone drives me crazy and lately nowadays I just have horrid thoughts.

I took up an offer to go out with a friend who finally convinced me that maybe I should just consider being alone for awhile...what she doesn't know are about my true thoughts...which if I disclosed to anyone, I'm certain would get me sent to a ward or something like that. So I'm scared that I'm going to lose a whole slew of friends if I told them what I was feeling internally

We went out a weekend ago, went clubbing. I don't like clubbing and I feel sorta sad that I don't because I'm in my 20's and I should. I only do so if I'm bored to death and desperate or to grab some drinks which is not often.

I can't stand the men i attract because they are and have always been old (late 30's-late 40's old, foreign and way too touchy feely forcey grabby for my comfort...and in the end, I end up feeling more reluctant and scared to even go clubbing again just because of what I am attracting.

So as you can tell, i'm feeling a lot more discouraged about going out there and trying again when I can't even seem to feel the feelings of intimacy I once shared with my ex.

I know it's not going to be the same or supposed to feel the same, but everything just feels awkward.

What if I'm not capable of giving someone a "healthy relationship?"

Does this mean that maybe I should just settle now and maybe give these older guys a chance?

I feel like if I do this, i'm setting myself up for a trap. Based on the way they touch me in the clubs, i know they don't respect me and therefore, I think I'd risk entering an abusive relationship in the near future. Yet, these are the "things" I attract.

I'm not stupid, but sooner or later the whole lonely route becomes so much more to bear and while I'm not suicidal anymore like I was in the past, nowadays...the thoughts I have have made me sick to the point where there is literally a bitterness in the back of my throat.


I want to start a new relationship, but the men I attract currently are so much less than what I desire


Am I being selfish?


Posted: 08 Oct 22:55

Dont fret...
I think you're being waaaaay to hard on yourself for this.

First of all, I don't think you ONLY attract the men you don't desire. What happened is you went to a place you don't like in the first place, that tends to be filled with the people you're not too fond of, doing activities you don't enjoy. There is no hardest rule that at your current age you HAVE to like that crap. I know I didn't then. Still don't really, and I'm an "old guy" of 37. lol

Now granted I wish I was more "open" back 15 years ago, but by that I mean I was extremely introverted. I have many many opportunities to make friends in various activities and whatnot around town, but I chose to hole myself up, so I only have maybe 3 friends I speak with still from that time in my life. What I would suggest is rather than go the "this is where people go to find guys" path, do the "I'm going to go out and do the stuff I like, and there will be guys there doing that too." Like for example joining sports clubs, or biking, or whatnot. Or intellectual clubs. This if anything gives you a common ground to start with.

Or, find some different places to go club wise. Don't go to the "main event" places full of douchebags. Go to the side hole places, like music clubs or whatnot. Places where people sip a nice drink, no lick shots off each other.

To me, the grabby, old guys are jerks. I don't grab ass with my own wife like that out in public. I just think stuff like that is disrespectful. I mean, there's a reason they're still single at that age if they're disrespectful jerks you know?

And as for the previous relationship, why is it a total failure? Were there no happy points? Are you not still friends? To me the only relationship that's a total failure is the one that never happened. Even if all you ever did is go on one date and see a movie or eat dinner and talk, that's a good relationship, for that short time period. Just take from it what was good, what you learned about yourself and what you want, and use that as tools to refine what you look for in the future.

I'm sure others will have better advice about dating and whatnot, but for me just take a step back and breathe, and realize that you're plenty young and nothing is that big of a deal to fret this much. :)

Take care...


Posted: 08 Oct 22:55


This isn't the first time I've gone clubbing since the spilt. It's weird though. In my mind, I definitely always thought it would be my type of atmosphere and to my horror, unless I have a drink or two, it's not my place to be unless I go with a bigger crowd.

The previous relationship, I consider to be a failure because despite the fact that he has about 75% of the qualities I need in a man, there were certain red flags that came up so much later AFTER we spilt. As it turns out, I found out later that while I was still in a "hunt" phase in hs, in turns out that he had been waiting for me all this time.

I broke up on the basis that we didn't see each other as often as we should have, but during that time, the issues I had with my own insecurity got to him as well.

I always thought it terms of us
He thought in terms of him...serving me essentially.

The only things that became dealbreakers:
-he doesn't want children, he's absolutely against it
-he hasn't had a job

and a minor and interesting thing on part as far as sex goes, although he does what he does when we were intimate.

-he's not a fan of oral (giving)
-sex seems so much like a chore to him, it's not something big for him (which is not an issue since I've never reached that far with him; but then again, I don't think sex with someone who is emotionally unavailable would be a good thing.)

Eventually I sensed his distance from me the last time we were intimate and months later he expresses his unhappiness at our current situation.

Nowadays as friends it works, but there is a part of me that wish that I didn't make the rash decision that I did back then, but then again, I'm not sure if I could wait around. We finally did a "date" thing AFTER the relationship due to timing issues.

Granted men don't change, but there was a small percentage that I needed him to work on.

There was no cheating, absolutely none.

And as friends, we've grown a lot since, but it's so hard being just friends with an ex especially since I prefer male company over the female company.

The friendship works in the manner that we can finally talk to each other more...and in the process, I found out that we both have personal issues that need to be resolved separately.

So after two weeks, I was distraught because what it had meant was essentially, I have to go cold turkey without physical intimacy now and that I might as well turn to female company while gritting my teeth whenever I hear their opinions on the matter. I don't like talking to my friends about my issues, because most of them have gone through this many more times and have been quite embittered....and I swear if I ever reach that point, I'm pretty sure, I'd just rather die right then and there, because I refuse to let bitterness become a part of my personality.

I'm 22, I have dealt with whatever I could thus far.

I don't care if I sound whiny, but I'm getting tired and a little aggravated with where I am versus where I should be in life currently.

I put off entering another relationship for about a year and a half now.


Posted: 08 Oct 22:56

Where should you be?
Perhaps you thought life "came with a program"? Sorry, SG, but until you ENJOY being alone - translates into having a rich and rewarding independent individual life - your chances of meeting The Man who fulfills all of your requirements - a mythical person at best - are NIL. Stop going to clubs and go where you want to go. Stop doing what you don't want to do and go do what you want to do. Get a spine. Go ahead. Be stubborn - just laugh about it like a kid contemplating getting into mischief. You also might want to re-think those "grabby guys". Your ex wasn't and look at the sex you got from him. No cunnilingus and ho-hum, he could do without. Now it just might be that what you regarded as "grabby" was just a normal male response to a fetching female. I can't really say since I wasn't there watching. Think about it. I do know that reticence in a female tends to activate the hunting instincts in males so if you calm down and regard them as a cat regards a mouse - a nice tasty male mouse - males tend to be much more careful & respectful. Finally, why do you need 'a relationship'? If you want a male, whistle one up! They're not scarce and if you give them half a chance, they're generally more than willing to do whatever you have in mind. If it develops into 'a relationship' - fine; if not, that's fine too.


Posted: 08 Oct 22:56

My ex in the beginning and...we're talking about way in the beginning...the "grabbiness", was mutual, consensual and sensual. I felt so comfortable with the way he touched me. It was fun, we both reciprocated...that attraction was there. BAM. There.

As for sex, I still believe in the "no intercourse before marriage, blah, blah, blah" but when we finally got to having a relationship, I became more willing to want to explore more with him which we did. I just had no idea that I would have an overwhelming desire for oral later down the road, while he was not big on it. He would do it from time to time though, depending on the moods we were feeling at the time.

Honestly, if the relationship failed in the long run, rather than when it did (a year), there's no doubt in my mind that I definitely would have, could have just done it fully with no regret on my end.

Finally, why do I need 'a relationship'?

Nowadays, it's not so much a relationship as it is a companionship. I'm sorry, for me a male companionship keeps me balanced and sane versus dealing with a sea of estrogenic women.

If you want a male, whistle one up! They're not scarce and if you give them half a chance, they're generally more than willing to do whatever you have in mind. If it develops into 'a relationship' - fine; if not, that's fine too.

This may be true and there's one in mind who was on I guess we can say layaway, before I grew a pair and finally went into a relationship with the person who I definitely saw myself in a long term relationship with. The one on layaway had opened my mind to a realm of sexual possibilities.

The reason why I chose not to pursue him? Because there were things that he revealed that honestly shocked me. Not in a bad way. It just threw me for a loop that he would be open to a friends with benefits thing.

But the secondary reason was because I was not sure if he could handle me and my miid swings from "I am willing to try to this" to flat out "no means no".

Plus, even though he is kinda cute, I already know the outcome. There's no viable relationship that can come out of it.

I can be flirty...definitely but anything past flirting, then for reasons that I am highly comfortable with, I would rather be in a relationship when and if sexual things should occur.

That's just my preference.


Posted: 08 Oct 22:56

You are 22; I was thirty when the right one came along (never mind the outcome but it has never been replicated). Club scene does nothing for me, either, but interest groups work well. Learn to cycle; to sail; fencing; any activity that you can think of that may be male heavy. Do not force yourself into uncomfortable situations, rather, find comfortable situations. Someone will teach you and that can lead anywhere. Other common interests evolve from one common thread. And, do not blame yourself; we all go through the same thing and some of us handle it better than others.


Posted: 08 Oct 22:56