OP: What's your reason for thinking gay is wrong? (excluding religion)

Hi TexasGuy:

I'm not going to fight the "religious" battle anymore either......so many folks have hooked their "eternity" on the bible and their beliefs that they really can't "risk" thinking any other way.

That said, you saidIt might surprise you to know that straight men can also go to movies together, discuss art/literature/film/theatre together, exchange recipes and romantic ideas, even hug each other... all without feeling the least bit "worried" that we're gay. So lest you suppose that straight men can't be as close as gay men can, you might want to reconsider.

I'll raise it even HIGHER...i belive ANY 2 people, of ANY GENDER, can enjoy and foster extremely close - even loving bonds with one another. In fact, i wish there were more relationships like that.

The only problem with that statement was the: So lest you suppose that straight men can't be as close as gay men can, you might want to reconsider....if you're referring to my above paragraph..then i'll agree. BUT, if you're basically saying "2 guys can be in love and it's cool as long as they don't swap bodily fluids?". I know part of that was tongue in cheek..but the underlying message is, "you can "love" someone without making love to them (aka: having sex). ANd again, for platonic relationship, that kind of thing can and does happen alot. But if you're saying, "Why can't you guys just be gay and not have sex?..then you've basically made the point that as long as most sr8 folks see being gay as a cock in an ass then tolerance isn't an issue - total ignorance is.

As far as gay men trying to go str8 thru those quasi-religious intervention programs i say: GOOD LUCK!

Can they help you adapt to "fit in" in what we all percieve as "regular society?"...sure......can they find a female, and "love" her.....sure..i did it for 20 years.....that is LIVE as a str8 man because i was sooooooooo inculcated with how a man was "supposed to act and feel" that i just did it.

I didn't have my first gay experienced till i was 30 (and it wasn't sex).

So, can you live a str8 life..of course......is it healthy to your friends, family and maybe children? NOPE.

I'm ranting again..and i'ts not at YOU TexasGuy...i'm just ranting in general! ;) HOpe this has all made some sort of sense!

Rawbob

Posted: 30 Sep 05:24

Rawbob,

I don't know how to quote multiple times, so I'll just do it this way...

"I'll raise it even HIGHER...i belive ANY 2 people, of ANY GENDER, can enjoy and foster extremely close - even loving bonds with one another. In fact, i wish there were more relationships like that."

I agree!

"....if you're referring to my above paragraph..then i'll agree. BUT, if you're basicly saying "2 guys can be in love and it's cool as long as they don't swap bodily fluids?"."

No... I was just trying to make the point that you don't have to be gay to have a close relationship with another man or to appreciate some of the things that aren't normally associated with straight male culture.

I'm kind of tired of being labeled a "metrosexual" (or etc.) just because I like to cook (on occasion), can fold a napkin properly, enjoy live theatre (and ballet, even some opera), have tried my hand at writing poetry, listen to certain music or appreciate a good Merlot. Oh, and I could care less about watching sports or drinking beer. I even enjoy a little anal play now and then, but I'm str8 all the way.

"As far as gay men trying to go str8 thru those quasi-religious intervention programs i say: GOOD LUCK!"

Like I said, I've known several personally who seem to be doing just fine with it. I think it might depend on the person and how strongly they feel in one direction or the other, don't you? I certainly believe that it's everyone's choice what they want to do (and have said that all along), so if someone wants to "switch teams" I say that's their perogative. We all have to live with the choices that we make.

"I didn't have my first gay experienced till i was 30 (and it wasn't sex)."

Okay... I'll bite... what was it then?? : )

TexasGuy

Posted: 30 Sep 05:25

>I have a question. If these six verses were not in the Bible, how would you feel about homosexuality then? Would you still feel that it is wrong?

oberon,

Okay, fair enough about the relative failure rate of those who attempt to change lifestyles. But why do you seem to begrudge those who wish to try another lifestyle (straight) and assume they're not being true to themselves? Maybe they feel that they are. Maybe that's the same way straight people feel about those who suddenly, after years of acting/living straight, announce they're gay...

Now for your question (above):

Tough question, oberon, and you've got me right where you want me, don't you? : )

I would have to answer -- no... if those verses weren't in there, based on the standard that I've chosen for my life, I would therefore fully embrace homosexuality as a viable, acceptable lifestyle option for devout Christians.

My reason for saying it's "wrong" is not based on any personal qualms, prejudices, disgust with or aversion to that lifestyle. In other words, it's nothing personal. It's a very non-emotional conviction that I have based on my understanding of the Bible's teachings. If those teachings weren't there, I'd willingly change my belief on the subject. (Similarly, I think the idea of an orgy or adultery sound fun, but based on my beliefs, I would also have to say that I think it's wrong.)

I had to compare it to oral sex. Oral sex is not specifically mentioned in the Bible, at least not in a forbidden sense. Therefore I personally believe that it's fine, it's good, it's okay with God, etc. I think if God hadn't wanted me to go down on my wife, He would have explicitly said so.

Now, continuing that way of thinking, if homosexuality was never mentioned in the Bible, I would regard it as acceptable, good, etc. Of course, the other passages (about faithfulness, purity, etc.) would still apply, so it would still have to be a monogomous relationship.

I'm starting to get tired of this topic so maybe we can all just agree to let each other do whatever (or whomever) each other wants to in our own respective bedrooms without hating one another, okay? But I do believe that each of us is ultimately accountable to God for what we do, and believe it when He says that for any given temptation that we might encounter -- sexual or otherwise -- He will provide a way out for us, should we choose to accept it.

TexasGuy

Posted: 30 Sep 05:26

Oh, I don't "begrudge" anyone the right to live their lives any way they wish as long as they aren't harming anyone. I will admit that it angers me that people feel the need to try to change who they are. But if someone is honestly happy living that life, fine. I just find it hard to believe they are. And usually by the time most find out that they can't live a straight life, they've involved a spouse and kids- that had no choice in the matter. Hence the "sudden" gay announcements...

I don't know about having you right where I want you... no, I won't go there, I don't know you nearly well enough...

I just find it interesting that if I remove those verses that most people would be perfectly fine with homosexuality. Yet, can you name me any other "sin" that applies to? If I took "Thou shalt not kill" out of the Bible, would anyone think it's okay to murder people? How about stealing? Lying? Adultery?

Those would be considered wrong with or without Biblical backing. Sin is always sin, and wrong is always wrong. Isn't it strange that rule doesn't apply to being gay? Hmmm...

oberon

Posted: 30 Sep 05:26

Interesting point you made, and I'll think more about it. I'm not sure if I agree or not, but it's certainly worthy of some consideration. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that the negative effects and results of those other actions are more immediately apparent and abhorent to us. I don't know, though. Thanks for the food for thought.

TexasGuy

Posted: 30 Sep 05:27

TexasGuy, I know you said you are becoming bored with this topic, but I can't tell you how much I've enjoyed conversing with you. Someone who doesn't scream and shout "It's wrong!" over and over. And is willing to discuss this topic in a rational and intelligent manner. The part of me that wishes you would change your mind is very much at war with the part of me that enjoys the fact that someone doesn't see eye to eye and is willing to debate the matter...lol.

I would still like to know more about the "negative effects and results" of being gay. No one yet has pointed out to me what those are. Anyone who can come up with anything would be most welcome to join in here.

Thanks again, TexasGuy. You're great!

oberon

Posted: 30 Sep 05:28

I am deeply religious, yet I see nothing wrong with you identifying as gay, lesbian or bisexual. We are all human and all equal before God. I promote freedom of choice. I believe that people can make their own choices and should not be judged for those choices.

Posted: 03 Sep 11:19

Regarding your question about why being gay is considered wrong, it's essential to note that being gay is not inherently a horrible thing. Sexual orientation is a personal aspect of someone's identity, and it's important to respect and embrace diversity.

Posted: 28 Dec 15:08