OP: Relationship reverting back to just friends...

I'm so sorry, RR.

When a person has a lot of long-term personal difficulties that take all their time, energy and focus, they sometimes reach a point where they realize that right now, they're unable to provide a loved one what they know they deserve.

I've been on both sides of that fence: I've recognized it in myself, and I've recognized it in a partner (an addict who thought he couldn't get clean without me, but I knew he couldn't get clean WITH me). It doesn't mean either party cares for the other any less, or wishes them any ill will. It just means that now is not the time. I know it's unthinkable right now, but over time you may find it means that this wasn't the "right" combination of people.

Take time to heal. But also, go find that which you need. I think you know that he wants that for you. And God knows you deserve it.

**hugs** to you.

lnt1103

Posted: 06 Oct 00:03

Thank you for your kind words, lnt :)
It's just that... I feel that I've failed him. For the past year he's been the one to support me. Of all the people that couldn't handle the misery I was going through, he's the one that stayed. The only one that I can still call "family". And I'm afraid I won't get to keep him. Even though his first question to this arrangement I made up, was if he could still love me...

It is rather ironic too. Coincidentally; yesterday it was exactly a year ago that I wrote him a letter filled with questions that he never responded to. I told him that we'd better stop with whatever it was we're doing, because it would be best. He didn't want to leave me. We decided that the love we had was enough, at least for that moment. On August 16th last year, few days later, I found what was supposed to be him/her/it as the definite ending of a very short pregnancy. It's still buried in a plant in my windowsill. That is also the last remaining product of the last time we were intimate together. Which was after the funeral of my best friend. I think I had hoped for the past year that we'd at least make another memory, so that it wouldn't be as much connected all together...

It is weird that we're still going on a holiday together. But I do believe it was the right decision to get this out of the way prior. He doesn't have the slightest clue of how he'll feel after. I guess I don't either.

RedRoses

Posted: 06 Oct 00:03

Dear RR, condolences, I regret you're going through difficult times.
But you have a friend which is a good thing - can you not let it be enough?

It seems to me, that you two are bonded in mutual weakness. Mutual poor or uncertain health sapping your resources, significantly less than happy pasts coloring your view of the future and, forgive me, a mutual lack of the aggressive spirit for conquest. You two seem focused upon loss to the point where possible gains or opportunities for gains aren't seen.

I think you find it difficult to find a place where you can be yourself because you're looking in the wrong place. You are yourself. In and of yourself, you are a whole human being and therefore "home" is wherever you're at. Friends and lovers enrich your life but do not complete you nor do they complete your life. You know this since you have said it yourself.

You haven't failed him. Just as he enriched your life for a time so too did you enrich his. But you aren't him and you cannot complete him - only he can do that. This is where that aggressive spirit for conquest comes in. Instead of burdening you with his ills (and burdening him with yours), heal thyself or bear up beneath their weight with some grace leaving room for joy, for happiness, for rowdy roitous living dancing naked in the streets to enter into your life.

You haven't been doing much dancing naked in the streets lately now have you? Perhaps its time you did. For the essence of life is going forward.

EvilEvilKitten

Posted: 06 Oct 00:03

I'll not offer condolences because whatever transpires in the next six weeks will leave a stronger person in a better place. I am sorry that either way (actually this is not binary) will be painful for you. For each thing we choose in life, we turn away from a thousand other things of most of which we are not even aware. I usually ignore threads such as this but you have become such an integral part of the Board that I see you as a friend. Friends try to be honest.

This has been creeping up for at least the last year. You have seen it; you have commented upon it. Now, you have confronted it and that is the only way to find a mutually satisfactory solution. You wish each other all that is wanted but recognize that you may not be the person to facilitate those dreams. Letting go is sometimes the only way to hold on.

Spend the time focused on you, not on "what might have been" nor what "it will become." On you. Hopefully, he will do the same for himself. Then, more mature and clear-headed copies of each will negotiate the next chapter.

You are dealing with a seventeen year difference in your ages and some physical and some psychological issues on each side. None of this is disqualifying but some of it may decrease the opportunities for each of you.

Stay strong, stay centered, be honest with yourself.

Brandye

Posted: 06 Oct 00:03

Brandye, thank you for responding and for the warm reason why you did! :) I can't say anything but that I think your words are true.

EEK, thank you for your encouragement. You've brought the concept of "home" back to it's core. I'm sure in time I will retrieve it again. I'm sorry, that thought just made me laugh, cause you could say I'm feeling home-sick, lost in the land of Oz like Dorothy, while I lack to see all I need is my own two feet :D Though seriously: I know that lack complicates things for me, the relationship I have with him, or with anyone else for that matter.

I can't say I agree with you completely. I don't think we bonded out of mutual weakness to begin with. I was actually a happy woman with a rather successful life at the time we started bonding. He was a happy man; he had not long before recovered from decease beyond everyone's expectations. I do think there was -and still is- mutual appreciation for what you may call our strengths and weaknesses, because we both know what it means to battle against physical difficulty on a daily basis. He more so than I. But; there may be truth in that we did postpone this moment of confrontation, compared to if there had not been times of need and weakness for both of us.

No, I haven't been dancing in the streets lately. Though in my defense ;) I've recently been so ill for 6 weeks that my physician was considering to have me administered at the local hospital. In the weeks before that; I had picked up on sports and bellydancing, which I took great joy in! I'm slowly picking up on where I left off.

I don't think I consider myself lacking spirit of conquest. As a recent example; most of my colleagues do not know I've been this ill. I was only back at the job for 3 days and his project-manager asked how my bf was doing, since he was ill at home with the flu for a few days. One of my colleagues said sarcastically; "off course we're not interested how she's been doing(?)". His response "I don't have to ask, since she's hopping around glowing and smiling as usual". And I can't deny it was true; I was happily jumping around. It's how I'm usually being described ever since university; that girl that smiles a lot.

I do think I have my flaws that I need to better. If there's something I'm guilty of, it's that I'm (too) loyal, (too) patient and (too) often emphasize the bright side, forgetting about the dark. It's just that such darkness will start to eat on me as it accumulates. And at the time I notice, I confess I don't take immediate or aggressive actions. I will go a very long way before I surrender to the need and confront who I must. Often I've started to feel physically sick before I do. It's funny the word for vomiting is actually "surrendering" in Dutch :rolleyes:

RedRoses

Posted: 06 Oct 00:03

Instead of ignoring the darkness - blast it. This is what I do. Turn off the lights, turn on the headphones and play Beethoven's Ninth the Choral, the last movement and then LIVE the darkness, let it run and then...let it go.

Of course it has been years since I last ranted at the gods - when I was given a preliminary diagnosis of having three life threatening diseases - oh joy! - but with time comes an appreciation for the ironies of life.

And as you are all too well aware, I've rarely avoiding or delayed confronting anyone about anything. Just give me an excuse! According to my grandkittens, I'm "awesome" and this is despite my telling them to sit up straight, be nice to your mother and don't be stupid. I'll ask anyone "why did you do that?" and expect to get an answer - and I'm not settling for "I don't know." No, I'm not ALWAYS yelling at people but confrontations don't ALWAYS require yelling.

I'm not saying that you should be more like me. I'm giving you an example of someone who is loyal, patient, looks on the bright side and has a lively sense of humor who also stomps around upon occasion and tells everyone to STFU, go away, dammit. And if you ask me for a divorce again, I'll take you up on it! HUSBANDS!! Of course said husband just sat on the sofa and grinned at me having finally gotten the answer he wanted. Pesky male never had any intention of divorcing me!

But I'm telling you - if he does end up divorcing me - he gets the kids.

So you see - no need to fear confrontations. No need to fear or regret changes. There really is nothing to be gained by making yourself sick or letting your nerves get in a twist. So you end up being rather 'larger than life' for a bit - ah well!

EvilEvilKitten

Posted: 06 Oct 00:03

I know I need to change that. A few years back, I was much doing so. And I think I'm on my way again. I need to learn again that I can stand up for what is important to me, without the sky coming down. I have lately managed to confront sooner and more effectively. Effectively, that is; I can say what I want to say and ask what I want to ask, without turning into this emotional jelly or have my eyes filled with lightening. Especially with him; the conversation will go nowhere if I'm either angry or sad. My emotions are his cue to hide inside his shell of silence. Even the latter conversation is an improvement. I had postponed it for a little too long, but not so long I was already a mess. And during I was able to keep myself fairly calm. The tears only came rushing as he started to hold and hug me after.

RedRoses

Posted: 06 Oct 00:03

I've received advice from several people I currently communicate with that I should be making myself "available" or "on the market". Basically; they say I now have a free pass to date, since I'm currently not "with him".

Perhaps this is very funny, but I hadn't really thought about the state of our relationship in that way. I had more thought about this temporary break as a moment to reflect and rethink on what it is that I want. Not much as a time to start dating and exploring horizons to finding someone new. Though you perhaps could interpret it like that...

I'm not sure really whether I even like the idea of dating, I'll have to think about that... But the question on however my current situation is interpretable, is definitely worth posing :)

So: what say you?

RedRoses

Posted: 06 Oct 00:04

Until you are married, you are a free agent and may do as you please.

EvilEvilKitten

Posted: 06 Oct 00:04

I see nothing wrong with dating if you so choose. You're not committed to each other as any more than friends.

In the end the choice is yours. It comes down to what you want.

lnt1103

Posted: 06 Oct 00:04

I've thought about it (off course that process had started even before I posted my question ;)). I guess there are a few things about dating that I dislike. It's my personal opinion, not trying to dictate anyone what to think or feel. You may off course put your comments on it :) My opinion may at times seem aggressive (or so I'm told), but it's not made of stone. I like to keep it liquid and re-evaluate.

First of all, as I used to say: I'm no product nor cattle so I don't belong on any market or display. I'm a bit less edgy nowadays than I was, but it perhaps puts it best ;) Furthermore; I don't see why people go about so desperate to "find" dates. By that I mean: all the dating sites, matchmakers, adverts, dating shows, etc. I also don't see the fun in the hang up that surrounds dating; the nerve-eating, Lord-I-have-nothing-to-wear and please-will-he-like-me and how-should-I-play-my-game. Last; I don't like the physical emphasis that appears to evolve around dating. I've never picked someone of the street because of his or her looks. I fail to see the attraction and connection. It would perhaps be an efficient way picking a model for paintings, but not a person.

Basically; I wear what I want, walk the way I want, dance the way I feel like it. If bystanders dislike it and want to give me a nasty look, I'm not going to be bothered. If anyone's likes the way I look and wants to twist his head and smile to me, that's great. I can feel genuinely flattered and ego-boosted. But it won't cut the pie to say "you look good, can I have your number?" Talk to me, then we'll talk.

From my point of view you don't "find" friends, lovers, relationships. You bump into people and talk to people, which I'd call socializing. I've never stopped doing that either while in a relationship. Throw me inside a random group of strangers and I'll be likely to have a conversation soon. I'm not shy when it comes to that. At the gym, in the supermarket, in the train, in the sauna, etc. I admit I rarely connect with people on such a substantial level while having a conversation that truly intrigues me. So not often does it have some sort of follow-up. But once in a while; this does happen. When I do like someone, I'll ask them to grab a bite down town or have dinner at my place, because I feel it's such a shame to end our lovely conversation (or propose to continue it at a more appropriate time in a more cozy environment). I can do that the first time I've met someone, just because the vibe is right. It can also take a while and more (coincidental) encounters. No critical, fluffy, relationshippy or sexual intentions, just a liking. It's how I started most of my friendships, including with him. Some were first to ask me. And each of them I consider little gifts of life.

Iow; I don't think I'll do anything different now. I'll just let me be.

RedRoses

Posted: 06 Oct 00:04

All good points. When I was "out there", I found that the harder I tried, the less satisfied I was with the results. But when I just said "okay, whatever happens", along came T.

Perhaps the advice to "be available" could be interpreted as, don't rule out dating/taking that kind of interest in people other than him. To leave open a door that was previously closed, as it were.

Again, if you so choose.

lnt1103

Posted: 06 Oct 00:04

RR, that's a fantastic viewpoint in my humble opinion. Those types of services used to be something that was "resorted" to, but now they almost feel like requirements from day 1. This is just my gut feeling from all the advertisements, as I'm married and not looking. I'd hate to have to start over using all the systems now. Hell, my wife fell for me (we were high school sweethearts) because I was the only person that stayed behind to help her find a lost ring on a school bus.

But your way is how I would go about it if I were "marketable" as it were. Firstly, you don't have a layer of BS to wade through, as I'm sure every profile on every site has some embellishment to say the least, but a guy on the street is just a guy on the street, without all the veils to distort themselves behind. And in the real world some random goofy thing can be the thing that sparks friendship. I spent well over 30 minutes talking to a big scary colors-flying gangsta looking guy because he saw me running in the goofy toe shoes I run in. He'd never seen them before and had all kinds of questions, as he was wanting to get in shape too. By the end we shook hands and knew 1st names, and as we were leaving he said "I bet you didn't think 2 people like us would talk that long, and about shoes, eh?" And he was right!

So yeah go work your people skills magic. If that's not good enough to find someone, then it's because there wasn't someone good enough to be found that day. :)

Firmus

Posted: 06 Oct 00:05

lnt, I guess you're right about: to leave open a door that was previously closed, as it were. That could very well be what they mean. And possibly what I should do. After all; we did have an exclusive relationship, which we were both committed to and that is not the case at the moment. I wonder how he goes about all this... We don't seem to have changed our behavior towards each other that much. On holiday we hugged while standing on a bridge, just because we were both happy and enjoying the view. A man passing by with his backpack said smiling: "awww, you two are such a cute couple!". Guess we didn't quite manage to not be a couple yet. Every little habit there was, is still there. While he's driving, he puts his hand on my leg and searches for my hand to hold it. I still kiss him before I go to sleep. It seems neither of us has the definite desire to really let go of that. Probably because we haven't really let go of each other and perhaps neither of us really wants to. We'll get to that part later and I'm sure you people will get to read all about it ;)

Firmus, thank you :) And yes; it is interesting to chat with all different kinds of people. I've had a lovely conversation with an elderly couple in the train while on holiday. We only started talking, because they recognized us speaking Dutch and coincidentally their daughter has moved to Holland and the lady was taking Dutch classes. I liked the conversation so much, I asked for their e-mail address, which they happily provided me with.

To me; friendships starting evolves around coincidence and seemingly meaningless actions. A former dear friend of mine was waiting outside our office as she had a job interview with my boss. It was early in the morning and I was the first to arrive. Very much against my habit! But it so happened I had woken up early that specific morning and had decided that if I couldn't sleep, I might just as well go to work. She had arrived way too early that morning, as she was forced to use public transportation from some village in the middle of nowhere in absence of her car. Within the first few minutes we instantly connected as much as the coffee I was making us ;) My late best friend was once upon a time sitting alone in a big college-room with groups of students gathering around her -that apparently were much befriended with each other- as I entered that day. I didn't know anyone and she caught my eye. I sat down beside her and from there it went. I was assigned to work with a colleague I had known for a year, but had never really talked to. The first day on the project, we were both so passionate on the subject, that we forgot about the time and found all our colleagues had left. Some time after; our conversations started to evolve around more personal things, hanging around at the office after work, because neither of us wanted to end the delightful conversation and leave. That's where the dinners started. At one of those dinners I held his hand while talking to him, which was the moment he fell in love with me, even though I only very vaguely remember that gesture ;)

RedRoses

Posted: 06 Oct 00:05

I don't see the problem - if there is one.

EvilEvilKitten

Posted: 06 Oct 00:05

What I have against dating, you mean?
Or that I should go about being "available"?
Or how it is not a problem we have not changed our behavior as a couple towards each other?

I think I've thoroughly made up my mind; I don't think I'll do anything different now than I did before. I'll just let me be. You could say; I'll be focusing on myself and what I want.

Btw: if I go by your theory, I'll be a life-long free agent :)

RedRoses

Posted: 06 Oct 00:05

RR, it sounds like you need a big hug

Thecalliton

Posted: 06 Oct 00:05

and RR, where's the harm in that since it is true?

Each of us is a multitude capable of sincerely loving many.

EvilEvilKitten

Posted: 06 Oct 00:05